Margin for a grey dealer on specific SS pieces

[sallyhats]

2018/2019 has been a bust for walk-ins looking to pick up a SS watch and I don’t see much of it changing for the first half of the year. We have discussed this until we are blue in the face, but why are certain pieces such as the 116610LN not readily available for purchase, the grey market is only a couple of dollars above MSRP, heck you can even get a mint condition used for less than MSRP right now. Why would greys gobble up watches that barely have any margin. We can all admit that it’s not regular Joes purchasing all these SS pieces but why is the black sub so hard to get but the Yacht-Master sits in windows.

[kieselguhr]

Black Submariner isn’t particularly hard to get. Just have to find an AD that wants your business

[mattedialdoc]

Originally Posted by sallyhats

.... why is the black sub so hard to get but the Yacht-Master sits in windows.

Because the YM is a dog?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bigblu10]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

black submariner isn’t particularly hard to get. Just have to find an ad that wants your business

x2. Tends to be more profiteering on the Hulk.

[ilovethiscity]

Originally Posted by mattedialdoc

Because the YM is a dog?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I’ll bet you have never even tried one on! I bought two Hulks in the first few years they came out and all the little keyboard warriors like you said they were cheap and crap looking. Now I bet because the whole forum loves them you’d sell a kidney for one.. sheepish

[sallyhats]

Originally Posted by Bigblu10

x2. Tends to be more profiteering on the Hulk.

Yeah I get it, the Hulk sells for roughly 13k, decent margin from $9,700, and that’s if the AD isn’t up charging to greys. But the black has almost 0 margin, why not leave it in the case for anyone to come through the door and purchase instead of playing games with customers.

[Likestheshiny]

I’ll bet you have never even tried one on! I bought two Hulks in the first few years they came out and all the little keyboard warriors like you said they were cheap and crap looking. Now I bet because the whole forum loves them you’d sell a kidney for one.. sheepish

What a remarkably bitter response.

The YM isn't especially popular. That's just a fact.

[huncho]

i would assume greys get subs for a good amount under retail...

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by mattedialdoc

Because the YM is a dog?




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by ilovethiscity

I’ll bet you have never even tried one on! I bought two Hulks in the first few years they came out and all the little keyboard warriors like you said they were cheap and crap looking. Now I bet because the whole forum loves them you’d sell a kidney for one.. sheepish

I think you missed the joke.

Google ‘how much is that doggie in the window....’

[sallyhats]

Originally Posted by huncho

i would assume greys get subs for a good amount under retail...

You think ADs are selling to greys below MSRP?

[huncho]

Originally Posted by sallyhats

You think ADs are selling to greys below MSRP?

yes of course. they always have

[MSchu]

I frankly don't see Grey's getting volume price breaks i n this economy

[mattedialdoc]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

I think you missed the joke.



Google ‘how much is that doggie in the window....’

Chewie,
You are a gentleman and a scholar!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ilovethiscity]

Originally Posted by Likestheshiny

What a remarkably bitter response.

The YM isn't especially popular. That's just a fact.

You know what I totally agree I’m sorry it must be time of the month.. I’m sorry everyone back in my box I go I didn’t mean to sound like an ass and I’m sure I did, sorry again

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

I think you missed the joke.

Google ‘how much is that doggie in the window....’

I know it was an awful response, apologies all!

[mattedialdoc]

Originally Posted by Likestheshiny

What a remarkably bitter response.

The YM isn't especially popular. That's just a fact.

He’s British...I’ll give him a pass. But super amusing how quick some dudes are to resort to personal attacks when someone on the internet doesn’t like their watch.
But it’s ok!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[sallyhats]

Why would an AD sell under MSRP to a grey when they can sell to the public at MSRP.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by huncho

yes of course. they always have

Interesting. I assume that this means AD’s are shifting unpopular, hard-to-shift stock along with some more desirable stuff? Otherwise it wouldn’t make any sense.

I’m pretty sure that if this happens on this side of the pond, it is much, much less common than over there. Which explains why this reference is being listed for up to 80% over MSRP and therefore really can be flipped for profit by average punters.

[Rodericky]

For the people who didn't know it:

Ofcourse greys get all the watches under msrp duhhh, except for the really hot pieces (blro/daytona etc)
An AD needs to have a minimum volume to be an AD ( like you can't be an AD if you sell 50 watches a year).
This is why AD's sell to grey dealers!! Buy selling to the greys, the AD's meet the required volumes.
The greys buy the "slow selling" pieces (way under msrp/ at purchase price) and also want to buy some hot pieces in return (little below msrp/at msrp/little bit over msrp), so they can sell the "slow selling" pieces with a discount under msrp (so they still have a good margin) and the hot pieces for way above the msrp, so they get the massive margins like we see now

[ilovethiscity]

Originally Posted by mattedialdoc

He’s British...I’ll give him a pass. But super amusing how quick some dudes are to resort to personal attacks when someone on the internet doesn’t like their watch.
But it’s ok!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Pass graciously appreciated. I’m really sorry Sir, had a bad day.. my bad entirely!!

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by huncho

yes of course. they always have

No they don’t. In many cases the grey dealers are paying above msrp. It’s a wash on what the grey dealer has to absorb to get the more popular models. In other words, the grey dealers have to also take less popular stock from the AD to get the hot models. I have traded a newer/hot model in to a trusted seller and I got top dollar and when he listed it, it showed his margins are razor thin.

[sallyhats]

Originally Posted by Mystro

No they don’t. In many cases the grey dealers are paying above msrp. It’s a wash on what the grey dealer has to absorb to get the more popular models. In other words, the grey dealers have to also take less popular stock from the AD to get the hot models.

I tend to agree with this. I think everything they purchase is sold at MSRP, if AD has to sell below MSRP than why wouldn’t they just sell to the public. The demand is there.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by Mystro

No they don’t. In many cases the grey dealers are paying above msrp. It’s a wash on what the grey dealer has to absorb to get the more popular models. In other words, the grey dealers have to also take less popular stock from the AD to get the hot models.

yeah i get that but i was just referring specifically to a regular sub, outside of what they're buying to get the popular models

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by sallyhats

I tend to agree with this. I think everything they purchase is sold at MSRP, if AD has to sell below MSRP than why wouldn’t they just sell to the public. The demand is there.

There is a advantage to sell to the grey dealer over the consumer simply because the grey dealer will be forced to also take all those DJ models that don’t move from the AD along with the hot models. The bundle games the AD’s play with the consumer also play with the grey dealers. Now if you are a trusted forum member that has a hot model to trade in, you are likely to get top dollar simply because it’s a simple transaction without any dog watches that are bundled in. It’s actually a win/win for both parties. There is also a low risk for both parties because the watch being traded in is well represented from the forum member they know and trust. The watch industry is a tight community and eventually most everyone knows each other. Reputations are earned over time and are guarded.

Newbies were not that much of a issue years past but the last few years the “Newbies” are not watch enthusiast and outside the community so they have to be looked at much more closely and most times the trusted sellers will just pass as it’s not worth the hassle/risk. If they do take your trade you are going to get a lower price than what he offers to a long time associate.

[sallyhats]

Originally Posted by Mystro

There is a advantage to sell to the grey dealer over the consumer simply because the grey dealer will be forced to also take all those DJ models that don’t move from the AD along with the hot models. The bundle games the AD’s play with the consumer also play with the grey dealers. Now if you are a trusted forum member that has a hot model to trade in, you are likely to get top dollar simply because it’s a simple transaction without any dog watches that are bundled in. It’s actually a win/win for both parties. There is also a low risk for both parties because the watch being traded in is well represented from the forum member they know and trust.

It’s an ugly business that the Rolex brand has gotten itself into and at some point they’ll need to rectify the situation as its reputation will be tarnished. Us WIS know how these pieces are being moved, but when the general public finds out that Rolex doesn’t really care about their customer base just their bottom line. Someone will feel wronged who has some sort of clout and want to boycott them.

[Net-man]

Where do all the ‘ugly’ watches go? All I see is well curated grey market. Maybe there is an ugly watch hell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Seibei]

To each his own. There are many watches I don't particularly like but I don't make a song and dance about it.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by sallyhats

It’s an ugly business that the Rolex brand has gotten itself into and at some point they’ll need to rectify the situation as its reputation will be tarnished. Us WIS know how these pieces are being moved, but when the general public finds out that Rolex doesn’t really care about their customer base just their bottom line. Someone will feel wronged who has some sort of clout and want to boycott them.

It’s always about the $$$ as the dealers are doing this to make the most $$$ anywhere they can. Rolex just needs to move their million watches a year to make their $$$$. Customers are just a necessary evil at the end of the cycle. A watch enthusiast needs to understand these watches are not any more special than any other luxury good in how they sell. It’s not personal. The free market will not be harnessed by artificial sources and price control will not work at any level.
The market speaks, the market accommodates making the most money it can. The Rolex marketing machine is a master at maintaining a demand for their product keeping the entire cycle alive.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Net-man

Where do all the ‘ugly’ watches go? All I see is well curated grey market. Maybe there is an ugly watch hell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There isn’t any. The general public easily purchases the DJ models over all others. It has always been this way before the last 3 year Rolex super storm. DJ is the high volume seller but isn’t as popular with the enthusiast that tend to prefer a SS Professional series. Watches like the DSSD are a niche watch within a niche market. Practically insignificant in sales but monstrous as a marketing tool.

[csaltphoto]

Originally Posted by sallyhats

Why would an AD sell under MSRP to a grey when they can sell to the public at MSRP.

Because they can a lot of watches to a grey at once. Bundle if you will. That's why you can usually find some harder to move watches at much less than MSRP at greys as well. Really it's just the market adjusting to conditions.

[sallyhats]

Originally Posted by Mystro

It’s always about the $$$ as the dealers are doing this to make the most $$$ anywhere they can. Rolex just needs to move their million watches a year to make their $$$$. Customers are just a necessary evil at the end of the cycle. A watch enthusiast needs to understand these watches are not any more special than any other luxury good in how they sell. The free market will not be harnessed by artificial sources and price control will not work at any level.
The market speaks, the market accommodates making the most money it can. The Rolex marketing machine is a master at maintaining a demand for their product.

I agree to an extent, but i don’t agree that Rolex just wants to move their required inventory. There are many companies that hit their quarterly earnings, but their reputation is pure trash (Boeing/JohnsonJohnson), but these companies provide down right necessary products that are used on a daily basis. Rolex offers a luxury product that no one really needs. If they are cast as an “evil” company that doesn’t care about their customer I think that would hurt them in the long run.