1680 red mk II thoughts?

[Dweller4000]

I’ve been scouring searching the webs for some time to find the, for me, perfect 1680 red. It has to be a meter first, box papers optional but it has to be in good condition What’s good condition? Well i sort of gave up that everything has to be original, there is no way of telling if this is the case. So, i settle for a original dial with case in good condition, 9315 bracelet and everything else to be period correct.

So, I’m eyeballing one on Chrono. It’s sort of close by which makes pick up easy. Set aside the price (I don’t mind paying a premium because this watch will with me (on the wrist!) for a lifetime). What do you think?

https://www.chrono24.nl/rolex/rolex-...id12218345.htm

From what I’ve seen so far the case and dial are in good condition. Not sure about the period correctness: 2.4M is the last of the meters-first series, however the thicker font of the ‘feet’ with the directly printed ‘red’ makes me doubt? Is this the correct combination?

Any input is much appreciated!

[subx]

this one has strangely all the ' buyable' generic paperwork/catalogs, EXCEPT the most important ones : the serialized chronometer certificate AND the serialized booklet .... hard pass at that price.

[bayerische]

Inflation is strong with this one.

[Dweller4000]

Originally Posted by rom

this one has strangely all the ' buyable' generic paperwork/catalogs, EXCEPT the most important ones : the serialized chronometer certificate AND the serialized booklet .... hard pass at that price.

Yes agree and known it doesn’t come with papers, but what about the watch itself?

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by Dweller4000

Yes agree and known it doesn’t come with papers, but what about the watch itself?

I don't see 36,5K...

Has quite a soft/recent polish to the side.

[bayerische]

Someone would have kept all accessories, but not the papers....?

[Dweller4000]

It’s not the first owner, so my guess is the accessories are gathered from different sources over time

[Paulie 50]

For me too much money.

[Dan S]

Nice dial, but only a so-so case. The accessories are worth very little. Overall, I'm not sure how to justify the crazy asking price. If you're really willing to pay that much, you should contact the top dealers, they will find you something really nice.

[zapokee]

Knock off 10 to 15 grand and it might be a go...

[oysterquartz17000]

Just another contrived pieced together set. I am afraid to say, these are quite common now. The price tag is one of those day dreaming chrono24 prices. Get onto ebay and look at recent completed listings on reds, you are paying double for some accessories worth a few hundred at best.

[1665fan]

Lume pip is dark patina nothing else

[XavierM]

Definitely not buying at this price.
Lugs are still thick but I do not like the polish at all.
Not able to see anything with these pics regarding the engravings.
Service crystal.
Crown looks like a 700 but would need confirmation at this price tag.
I would have expected punched papers at this price, but maybe I am stuck in the past...

Kind Regards,

[Dweller4000]

Crown is a replacement.. as i a said it seems almost impossible to find a good one!

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by Dweller4000

Crown is a replacement.. as i a said it seems almost impossible to find a good one!

Define a good one?

Like this?

[oysterquartz17000]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Define a good one?

Like this?

I'd prefer one with original lugs and a lume pip.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by oysterquartz17000

I'd prefer one with original lugs and a lume pip.

Ok lug expert.

There’s a difference between polished yearly and polished once.

[oysterquartz17000]

Originally Posted by bayerische

Ok lug expert.

There’s a difference between polished yearly and polished once.

Oh ok, this is your watch?

Well, are the end links crooked or the lugs different lengths, looks a bit off to me.

Wouldnt say thats a 'perfect' example. I would classify an unpolished example as perfect.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by oysterquartz17000

Oh ok, this is your watch?

Well, are the end links crooked or the lugs different lengths, looks a bit off to me.

Wouldnt say thats a 'perfect' example. I would classify an unpolished example as perfect.

Yes it's mine.

No they're the same, might be the pic angle if you see them crooked.

The lug on the lower left is ever so slightly thinner, probably due to the polish.

The lugs aren't really the only thing to look at. The crown guards are another good teller if the watch has been overly polished at some point.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by oysterquartz17000

Well, are the end links crooked or the lugs different lengths, looks a bit off to me

Originally Posted by bayerische

The lug on the lower left is ever so slightly thinner, probably due to the polish

People too often make the mistake in thinking that some bad or aggressive polishing is the reason for a thin lug or two. These watches were cut by hand to begin with. Therefore they’re ALL going to be ever so slightly different from the next one, and the one before (which, to me, is why they’re so much more special and beautiful than today’s computer software-designed cases and dials, which all look identical).

This is a scan from a Rolex catalogue from 1970. Look at the lug thickness. Particularly, the top right and how much thinner it is. If someone posted this exact watch today on the forum, 75% of the comments would claim it was over-polished and should be avoided.
But this is what they looked like BRAND NEW!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[springer]

One thing is for sure...these "what do you think" threads are entertaining subject matter to start the day off!!! Keep 'em coming.

[Racer X]

Not commenting on this particular watch or this particular seller but, after spending hours upon hours searching for watches on Chrono24, I've decided that I'm not going to buy anything from there. Nearly every watch I found that I liked (about 8-10 of them in total) ended up having some problem. The wrong case back date for the dial or vice versa, the wrong dial for the serial number, etc., etc. I now believe that most of the "high-value" watches on the site are frakenwatches that real collectors have passed on due to these issues, which the casual buyer would not appreciate or understand.

It's also telling that most of the postings provide no pics of the movement, the inside of the case back, or the ref/sn engravings. Also, most postings don't identify the serial number (the first three digits would be fine). These are all things that any serious collector would need to see before buying a Rolex. On top of that, when you request to see this information or inquire as to why something doesn't look right, you either get no response or an angry response, as if you're being unreasonable asking questions about a watch they want over $10,000 for. No thanks. I now consider Chrono24 to be just as bad as eBay. I might use it to identify watches near me that I can inspect in person and meet the seller, but no way would I buy sight unseen and no way would I buy an expensive watch from overseas through the site. Caveat emptor!

[springer]

Originally Posted by Racer X

Not commenting on this particular watch or this particular seller but, after spending hours upon hours searching for watches on Chrono24, I've decided that I'm not going to buy anything from there. Nearly every watch I found that I liked (about 8-10 of them in total) ended up having some problem. The wrong case back date for the dial or vice versa, the wrong dial for the serial number, etc., etc. I now believe that most of the "high-value" watches on the site are frakenwatches that real collectors have passed on due to these issues, which the casual buyer would not appreciate or understand.

It's also telling that most of the postings provide no pics of the movement, the inside of the case back, or the ref/sn engravings. Also, most postings don't identify the serial number (the first three digits would be fine). These are all things that any serious collector would need to see before buying a Rolex. On top of that, when you request to see this information or inquire as to why something doesn't look right, you either get no response or an angry response, as if you're being unreasonable asking questions about a watch they want over $10,000 for. No thanks. I now consider Chrono24 to be just as bad as eBay. I might use it to identify watches near me that I can inspect in person and meet the seller, but no way would I buy sight unseen and no way would I buy an expensive watch from overseas through the site. Caveat emptor!

I echo your comments Dave. While there might be an occasional "gem" on that web site, it would not be a place where I would look for a decent vintage watch nor recommend to anyone.

[Dweller4000]

Originally Posted by springer

One thing is for sure...these "what do you think" threads are entertaining subject matter to start the day off!!! Keep 'em coming.

Thanks for the input. I get it is fun to bash on Chrono/newbies/other watches but so far the input has been very little. All i see is comments on the price and the stuff that comes with it but not the watch itself. I wonder what would happen if people post this as a recent purchase?

If people say knock off 15K, then I wonder why no similar watches are ever offered in the sale section of this forum at this price point. I'm not defending the seller, i just asked for input in the watch and to a certain extend the price is of course associated with that, but now it seems people just dislike because its on Chrono24?

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by Dweller4000

I wonder what would happen if people post this as a recent purchase?

Everyone would congratulate them and tell them how gorgeous their watch is and what a great job they did finding it. Which is the great irony of all of this: If every one us posted our favorite watch as a watch we're considering buying, the commenters here would pick apart apart that watch and scrutinize it endlessly. "Over-polished" "that lug is too thin" "no meat left on the case" "possible relume" "wrong serial for that insert", etc. etc.

[bayerische]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

People too often make the mistake in thinking that some bad or aggressive polishing is the reason for a thin lug or two. These watches were cut by hand to begin with. Therefore they’re ALL going to be ever so slightly different from the next one, and the one before (which, to me, is why they’re so much more special and beautiful than today’s computer software-designed cases and dials, which all look identical).

This is a scan from a Rolex catalogue from 1970. Look at the lug thickness. Particularly, the top right and how much thinner it is. If someone posted this exact watch today on the forum, 75% of the comments would claim it was over-polished and should be avoided.
But this is what they looked like BRAND NEW!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting indeed.

Mine is from a very reputable seller, and I love it.

But back to the op, I know it’s hard to find a good one, but unless you need a MK1, around 20K should find you a nice one.

[Racer X]

Originally Posted by springer

I echo your comments Dave. While there might be an occasional "gem" on that web site, it would not be a place where I would look for a decent vintage watch nor recommend to anyone.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Dweller4000

Thanks for the input. I get it is fun to bash on Chrono/newbies/other watches but so far the input has been very little. All i see is comments on the price and the stuff that comes with it but not the watch itself. I wonder what would happen if people post this as a recent purchase?

If people say knock off 15K, then I wonder why no similar watches are ever offered in the sale section of this forum at this price point. I'm not defending the seller, i just asked for input in the watch and to a certain extend the price is of course associated with that, but now it seems people just dislike because its on Chrono24?

I don't understand why you are complaining. If you read through the comments, I think you will find that many of them are substantial, and there is actually quite a strong consensus that the watch is a decent example, but with some modest flaws that have been articulated by the members. At the same time, we are human, and prone to express our full opinions. The price being asked for this watch is truly exorbitant, and would only be justified by an exceptional example, fully serviced, with the original full set, warranty, and provenance, from a well-known dealer/collector.

I believe that if you contact five top dealers and tell them that you are willing to spend $40k USD for a 1680 red Mk II, three of them will jump at the chance to offer you a better example. These watches are not rare at all.

[oysterquartz17000]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

People too often make the mistake in thinking that some bad or aggressive polishing is the reason for a thin lug or two. These watches were cut by hand to begin with. Therefore they’re ALL going to be ever so slightly different from the next one, and the one before (which, to me, is why they’re so much more special and beautiful than today’s computer software-designed cases and dials, which all look identical).

This is a scan from a Rolex catalogue from 1970. Look at the lug thickness. Particularly, the top right and how much thinner it is. If someone posted this exact watch today on the forum, 75% of the comments would claim it was over-polished and should be avoided.
But this is what they looked like BRAND NEW!





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dweller4000]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I don't understand why you are complaining. If you read through the comments, I think you will find that many of them are substantial, and there is actually quite a strong consensus that the watch is a decent example, but with some modest flaws that have been articulated by the members. At the same time, we are human, and prone to express our full opinions. The price being asked for this watch is truly exorbitant, and would only be justified by an exceptional example, fully serviced, with the original full set, warranty, and provenance, from a well-known dealer/collector.

I believe that if you contact five top dealers and tell them that you are willing to spend $40k USD for a 1680 red Mk II, three of them will jump at the chance to offer you a better example. These watches are not rare at all.

Yes thanks again for the input on the watch so far. As always much appreciated to get input from the experts here, that is obviously not my issue.

To me it seems people see C24 and immediately judge based on the fact that the watch is advertised there. Yes pricing is obviously important but as I stated in the opening post: i'm not buying at this price point. The consensus here seems that such a piece should be 20-25K however any decent mk1 - mk2 is well over 30K (EUR) and full sets seems to go over 40K all the time. I actually got a PM from a forum member for one that was almost 50K (mk1 full set). So unless i'm overlooking any dealer websites, it seems that there is a huge discrepancy between market price point and what people here think such a watch should cost?