Vintage bezel - Opinons needed ...

[mongobongo]

Hi, long story short.

I have a vintage rolex tudor bezel that is cracked.

It was cracked by a watch repair shop over twenty years ago and now I wish to get the watch back to how it should be.

The watch is a Rolex Tudor 9061/0 production year is 1978.

Here is my bezel





After almost a month of keeping an eye out on ebay one was up for auction, the seller could not provide calibrated measurements of the bezel but still decided to bid, needless to say someone wanted the item more than myself, my highest bid was 190$ US (shipping would have been 40$ US).

So without knowing the inner dimensions of the bezel using a pair of calipers and having to pass on the item on eBay, im left looking for alternative options.

Ive been told by others that my bezel can be repaired by LA Watch Works, I am located almost 12,000 km away.

So I am looking for the following opinions/information

1/ What sort of cost would I be looking at for a repair of my current bezel
2/ Are there places in Europe who are skilled at such repair and can be validated by forum members such as LA Watch Works which has been suggested to me.
3/ Should I continue looking for an original replacement part and pay what ever it takes (no I am not a high earner, on the contrary I am far from that).

Thanks

[motoikkyu]

Please do not be offended, tone is very difficult to control in written communications and I've been told I can be a bit abrasive. I strongly encourage you to invest in a Boley gauge. This is a simple measuring instrument that is accurate to 1/10 of a mm. Sells for about $6 USD on eBay. You will use it more than you think in the world of watches, it's very handy. Now, for my controversial opinions that are guaranteed to generate some heat. First, I have never seen that particular bezel fitted to that particular watch. That doesn't mean it's not correct, the part definitely looks genuine Rolex, but I've never seen one like that on that particular watch. It's possible that it contributed to the failure that the part was stressed too much in the pressure fitting. I personally would not trust any welded repair for a part that's going to be under pressure from the acrylic crystal, this will be especially dicey if it's not quite the right part to begin with. Having said that, there are both genuine and decent aftermarket bezels available, likely in your price range BUT, in a case like this, I would definitely want to be working with a skilled professional watchmaker or casemaker (did you know there are watchmakers that specialize in case-making and fitting? I didn't!) because it's not just ordering the right part, but fitting it correctly that will affect your long-term satisfaction. It's a beautiful watch, you probably won't regret doing this correctly, but do shop around for some quotes. I know I can get this type of work (fitting) done in NYC for very little, if I supply the part, more if they have to get the part for me. By very little, I mean $40USD for labor-only. Once again, these are sincere opinions, based on my experiences (we had a famous bezel-maker on 47th Street in NYC for years, who would turn the bezels in white gold from scratch for any watch for less than $100 plus gold price, he was a treasure, but he has passed) that I have had over the years replacing bezels on hard-to-fit watches, Rolex is much more straightforward.

[Tools]

Easily welded up and refinished.

[mongobongo]

Originally Posted by motoikkyu

Please do not be offended, tone is very difficult to control in written communications and I've been told I can be a bit abrasive. I strongly encourage you to invest in a Boley gauge. This is a simple measuring instrument that is accurate to 1/10 of a mm. Sells for about $6 USD on eBay. You will use it more than you think in the world of watches, it's very handy. Now, for my controversial opinions that are guaranteed to generate some heat. First, I have never seen that particular bezel fitted to that particular watch. That doesn't mean it's not correct, the part definitely looks genuine Rolex, but I've never seen one like that on that particular watch. It's possible that it contributed to the failure that the part was stressed too much in the pressure fitting. I personally would not trust any welded repair for a part that's going to be under pressure from the acrylic crystal, this will be especially dicey if it's not quite the right part to begin with. Having said that, there are both genuine and decent aftermarket bezels available, likely in your price range BUT, in a case like this, I would definitely want to be working with a skilled professional watchmaker or casemaker (did you know there are watchmakers that specialize in case-making and fitting? I didn't!) because it's not just ordering the right part, but fitting it correctly that will affect your long-term satisfaction. It's a beautiful watch, you probably won't regret doing this correctly, but do shop around for some quotes. I know I can get this type of work (fitting) done in NYC for very little, if I supply the part, more if they have to get the part for me. By very little, I mean $40USD for labor-only. Once again, these are sincere opinions, based on my experiences (we had a famous bezel-maker on 47th Street in NYC for years, who would turn the bezels in white gold from scratch for any watch for less than $100 plus gold price, he was a treasure, but he has passed) that I have had over the years replacing bezels on hard-to-fit watches, Rolex is much more straightforward.

Hi!

On the contrary, I dont find your tone at all "offending" more like "refreshing"

Would much prefer people were more honest, rather than put a fake persona, as long as things are done in a respectful manner Im all for honesty!

I already have a pair of vernier calipers, mechanical.

:)

Now to your next point, as someone who is not from a watch background (I am an IT specialist but have dismantled many many things from a young age ) I did extensive research on my grandfathers watch before posting on a couple of watch forums.

From research 9061/0 were produced with the aforementioned bezel.

Resources
https://www.crownandcaliber.com/prod...-20-tud-17502c
https://www.watchesbytimepiece.com/g...lack-dial-tu11
https://www.vintage-portfolio.com/sh...matic-vintage/
https://www.chrono24.com/tudor/princ...-id9178620.htm

However! Although the bezel looks like those in the pictures, it probably is not the one that was originally with the watch, will now explain

The image below is the receipt from the jewelers I took the watch to for repair in 1999. If I remember correctly, the gentleman at the store had to send the watch to another place to be repaired.



Images of original crystal





I have no idea how the original crystal got that way, my grandfather passed away in 1992 and the watch was given to me some time later. He was a fisherman and Cyprus can get very hot, but it looks melted so dont know if being left in the sun can do that.

There is a point I need to make, a subtle detail which tells me now, with the knowledge provided through the Internet (of course not available to a 25 year old me at the time) that the bezel was probably switched at the place that handles the repair.

How did I come to this conclusion, simple, the original crystal has a lip at the base, the replacement crystal does not.

After searching online I found that the original crystal for this watch is a 25-123 and yup, the 25-123 also has a lip on the bottom, now back to the bezel.

https://blog.esslinger.com/wp-conten...tal-number.pdf

The back of the bezel on my watch is flat



The bezel in the eBay auction I mentioned above, that is from a Rolex 1003 (from looking at the webs 1003 also came with engine turned bezels), which I eventually ended up purchasing (the winning bidder didnt want it, thats another story) which is on its way to me so I can only post an image from the eBay auction see below



See the difference to my bezel

:)

The base is not flat, which would make sense as the crystal has a lip, where as my bezel is flat and the replacement crystal has no lip. So the original bezel I have no idea of its whereabouts, but I do remember it being an engine turned bezel.

Now as is well documented, Tudor shared parts with Rolex's of the time. And we know from online documentation that the Rolex 1003 uses a crystal that also has a lip just as the Tudor 9061/0.

So I think I can make the assumption that the Rolex 1003 will share the same bezel with the Tudor 9061/0, hopefully this is the case and so finally my grandfathers watch will be reunited with the correct parts



Re the welded parts, ive been fortunate enough to have found a very kind gentleman who has been assisting me with information with regards to repairing/refurbishing the watch. He is a watchmaker by trade who used to live in Cyprus. He is based in Germany now, but is a US citizen and is US trained as well as having worked at well established businesses in Germany and the US as well as running his own business in Cyprus when he was resident here.

He also said to me its not worth the effort in repairing, just best to sell on to a watchmaker who can possible use it by matching it with the correct crystal and undertaking the repair themselves.

..............Living in big cosmopolitan cities has its advantages and disadvantages, having access to a wealth of specialist trades is one of them



Shame to hear that one such person has passed on, it seems, from what I have been told from the watchmaker (Steve) that the new generation of people being taught is more towards throw away and replace rather than refurbish and repair, but thats another story .........

And I really do appreciate your sincere opinions, you were not harsh at all, just truthful and respectful.

And thanks, it is a beautiful watch



More images below

Originally Posted by Tools

Easily welded up and refinished.

Thank for you input

:)

[mongobongo]

So I have finally received both parts, the bezel and the crystal.

And instead of being in a position where it is clear that I have the correct parts, what I have received is making me question the validity of the items I have purchased.

First point,

As you can see in the picture of the original crystal I have provided, it is very clear that the crystal has a lip.

The crystal that I purchased, in which the pictures of the item that were provided by the seller shows that it has a lip, but having received it has no lip ....

Does anybody here know if original oem 25-123 crystals should have a lip or not ???

Look at the third picture, is this not a lip, or an optical illusion i.e. the cameras interpretation of reality is not exactly that !??

Also the cyclop of the crystal has not one but two anomolies, they are either scratches on the back or they are in the cyclops.





Now onto the bezel, as soon as I saw it I noticed that it was smaller, not by much but the external diameter is approximately 1.4 mm smaller.

The bezel height is also taller and its clear they are not identical in design (different angle of the slope).

Now, those who of who have read this thread carefully will remember that I am guessing that the original bezel may not be the original bezel that came with the watch and may have been switched by the first shop that handled the replacement crystal.

The internal diameter is almost the same as the bezel does fit snuggly over the crystal and needs pressure to be aligned flat with the watch case (I have yet to "seat" it).

Now... looking at pictures of Rolex 1003 from the Internet (mainly at chronos24) it seems like the bezel I received external diameter is smaller.

So the next question, I would not have expected such a difference in external diameter for bezels that are manufactured by Rolex, but I am not from a "watch repair" background.

Also the external diameter is too big to be for a 32 mm case

So are such differences normal ??







Hope someone can shed some light on this as both items were bought from ebay, both items arrived months late, so I need to act quickly if there is a chance I can get the sellers to respond to me questions regards the items I have purchased from them.

Thanks!

:)

[Vincent65]

It all seems a bit too over-thought and protracted to me, sorry. I'd just take it to Rolex/Tudor and get it serviced, a correct new bezel, crystal, pressure test etc.

[mongobongo]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

It all seems a bit too over-thought and protracted to me, sorry. I'd just take it to Rolex/Tudor and get it serviced, a correct new bezel, crystal, pressure test etc.

Yes, your opinion is highly valued and it is protracted because I am not a watch specialist.

I can only deal with logic and evaluation of the things that I have at hand.

Than I come to a place that has specialists who hopefully can provide the experience that I do not posess.

Did you not think that some of us do not have the monies to take items to authorised dealerships, not to mention the stories from experienced watch people not to take old watches to authorised Rolex dealerships ?

So I am hoping, someone with experience can fill in the gaps so I can make a more correct decision.

Many thanks and Grütze

[offrdmania]

The Tudor 9061 has a similar bezel to what you would find on a Rolex 1007 but dimensionally they are very different. Most likely 1 in 10 will be for a Tudor and the rest for Rolex. You may have a tough time sourcing one my friend.

[mongobongo]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

The Tudor 9061 has a similar bezel to what you would find on a Rolex 1007 but dimensionally they are very different. Most likely 1 in 10 will be for a Tudor and the rest for Rolex. You may have a tough time sourcing one my friend.

Thank you ever so much for your experience with the Tudor 9061 bezel and the Rolex 1003 bezel.

Yes I have been looking on a regular basis that one may turn up but so far I did not find one, hence the reason I took the risk that the bezels would be the same as they share the same crystal (25-123 according to esslinger.com).

Regards the crystal, it looks to be one scratch and due to the magnification it look like two scratches.

From what I have read here I should be able to polish this out.

I have polish that I use to repair CD/DVD, should this be OK for the job ?

Thanks

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by mongobongo

Yes, your opinion is highly valued and it is protracted because I am not a watch specialist.

I can only deal with logic and evaluation of the things that I have at hand.

Than I come to a place that has specialists who hopefully can provide the experience that I do not posess.

Did you not think that some of us do not have the monies to take items to authorised dealerships, not to mention the stories from experienced watch people not to take old watches to authorised Rolex dealerships ?

So I am hoping, someone with experience can fill in the gaps so I can make a more correct decision.

Many thanks and Grütze

Nice and sarcastic This is exactly why I suggested taking it to a watch specialist. I was actually trying to help, but please keep going and buying incorrect bezels and trying to ascertain the precise micro-measurements, when you could just have someone qualified to do it for you. It's not going to be thousands, and it won't be that scary, honestly.
Seemingly, you have the money to gamble on buying random stuff online, without really being certain. Did you not think that having "someone with experience" to "fill in the gaps" might be better?!