Help Please - Looking for my first Panerai

[Oxfordian]

Hi all,

I have been interested in watches for many years but not had lots of funds available to buy watches on a regular basis but have managed to put together a collection comprising of two Omega's a Seamaster Professional Diver and a Hesalite Moonwatch, I also have a DJ41 which I bought last year as a belated major birthday present for myself..

This year I would like to add a Panerai Luminor, I love the design, it is unique and looks like nothing else which is very appealing, but I haven't a clue on what is what within the range. This forum is proving useful as it is a huge knowledge pool but also confusing for a novice fan of the brand.

So my purpose of starting this thread is to try and get some pointers on the what I should be looking at.

I plan to buy new and have a budget up to around £7500, I think that a 44mm watch would be ideal as I have tried an Omega PO Chrono and that looked fine on my wrist.

If I may take some liberties and pose a few question please, understanding that the ultimate choice of watch has to be mine;

1. What would be some good models to look at, I have viewed the 13** range on the Panerai website and these look good, but also the 77* range and the 5**'s, a 914 looks different from the some of the other watches with the Tan strap.

2. Some of the differences in the watches appear to be the dials with some having a painted dial whilst others a stencil dial, is there a preference on which to have or is it 6 to 1 and half a dozen to the other?

3. White dials, there are a few but there seems to be a lack of white dial watches on this forum, the WRUW thread on recent pages has a minimal number of white dial watches, is there a reason for this as the dials look good.

4. Could anyone point out some good threads for me to read and digest some good Panerai information please.

Sorry for such a long post and apologies for rambling on.

Thanks.

[ASW1]

Welcome and enjoy your search. There are so many options.

Personally I prefer the 1950 style case and a perfect all rounder in this range is the 233 although new it is above your price range. You can however get one in perfect pre-oned condition from an authorised dealer for that range e.g https://www.pragnell.co.uk/products/...m00233-2375615

Here is a thread for your delight https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=252365

And plenty of reviews on Google
https://www.google.com/search?client...&bih=630&dpr=2

Some of the highlights of the 233 for me are:
8 day manual wind (actually 10 days)
Domed crystal - stunning
Quick change strap mechanism
See through back
Sandwich dial
Power reserve indicator
Plenty of other complications

Another consideration is the 1033 https://www.panerai.com/gb/en/collec...mt---44mm.html

The 1033 has:
A stunning dial
3 day automatic movement (if you to refer this to manual)
Power reserve
Quick change strap mechanism
See through back
Sandwich dial
The only thing I would add to it would be a domed crystal - it has a flattish one.

Also, to get a sense of range and options check out the Panerai website and also Watchfinder.

Have fun.

By the way, the Pragnell 233 I posted in link above strikes me as a good deal for a great watch from. Panerai authorised dealer.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[enjoythemusic]

Another vote for the PAM 01033. Look, if you wear 'em an 8 day reserve is worthless as three is waaaay more than enough imho. You also get '9' on the dial, display back, newer movement, GMT FUNction, and even power reserve reading (though mine seems to ALWAYS say 3 unless i take it off for the weekend to wear something else). The sandwich dial is the way to go imho and the blue dial is stunning!

Register it online and you get an 8 year warranty too :)

Have a 6.75" wrist and the band hugs my wrist perfectly so ZERO flop or slop. Eeeeeasy to change bands too. The lume lasts virtually all night, too, which for me is VERY important for my lifestyle as wear it when sleeping so can see the time without moving my head, which allows me to go back to sleep.

Note sure i'd want a white dial on a 44mm Panerai with soooo much real-estate on the dial. Might look 'too big' visually. jmho there and have the Polar II and SS 'tona Panda. The PAM01033 has a nice balance of indices to the blue dial imho.

As for threads, there's SEARCH function here of TRF and also try:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pane...forum-f353391/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/paneristi/

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by ASW1

Welcome and enjoy your search. There are so many options.

Personally I prefer the 1950 style case and a perfect all rounder in this range is the 233 although new it is above your price range. You can however get one in perfect pre-oned condition from an authorised dealer for that range e.g https://www.pragnell.co.uk/products/...m00233-2375615

Here is a thread for your delight https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=252365

And plenty of reviews on Google
https://www.google.com/search?client...&bih=630&dpr=2

Some of the highlights of the 233 for me are:
8 day manual wind (actually 10 days)
Domed crystal - stunning
Quick change strap mechanism
See through back
Sandwich dial
Power reserve indicator
Plenty of other complications

Another consideration is the 1033 https://www.panerai.com/gb/en/collec...mt---44mm.html

The 1033 has:
A stunning dial
3 day automatic movement (if you to refer this to manual)
Power reserve
Quick change strap mechanism
See through back
Sandwich dial
The only thing I would add to it would be a domed crystal - it has a flattish one.

Also, to get a sense of range and options check out the Panerai website and also Watchfinder.

Have fun.

By the way, the Pragnell 233 I posted in link above strikes me as a good deal for a great watch from. Panerai authorised dealer.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

Thank you very much for the reply, lots of info for me to digest and consider, appreciated.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Another vote for the PAM 01033. Look, if you wear 'em an 8 day reserve is worthless as three is waaaay more than enough imho. You also get '9' on the dial, display back, newer movement, GMT FUNction, and even power reserve reading (though mine seems to ALWAYS say 3 unless i take it off for the weekend to wear something else). The sandwich dial is the way to go imho and the blue dial is stunning!

Register it online and you get an 8 year warranty too :)

Have a 6.75" wrist and the band hugs my wrist perfectly so ZERO flop or slop. Eeeeeasy to change bands too. The lume lasts virtually all night, too, which for me is VERY important for my lifestyle as wear it when sleeping so can see the time without moving my head, which allows me to go back to sleep.


As for threads, there's SEARCH function here of TRF and also try:

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/pane...forum-f353391/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/paneristi/

Hmm, thanks for throwing me a curve ball, that 1033 is rather nice, in fact very nice.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

Hmm, thanks for throwing me a curve ball, that 1033 is rather nice, in fact very nice.

A most humble thanks. FYI added a bit more info within my original post so look up and re-read as there's more info. Always happy to be of service.

Enjoy your time

BTW, i treat it like a true BEATER with Florida ocean sports, sand, off-road bicycling, working on cars, etc. Have changed bands at least 10 times in the past two or so months, you'll love how easy it is to change the look via different color plastic, or leather, bands.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

A most humble thanks. FYI added a bit more info within my original post so look up and re-read as there's more info. Always happy to be of service.

Enjoy your time

BTW, i treat it like a true BEATER with Florida ocean sports, sand, off-road bicycling, working on cars, etc. Have changed bands at least 10 times in the past two or so months, you'll love how easy it is to change the look via different color plastic, or leather, bands.

Thanks for the update, i am struggling to get over that blue dial it is just superb, the Panerai website just doesn't do it justice.

[rootbeer7]

My only advice is as lockdown comes to an end, spend time (a lot of it) trying them on. You may be surprised.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

My only advice is as lockdown comes to an end, spend time (a lot of it) trying them on. You may be surprised.

This is the right approach.

To the OP:

The Panerai range is surprisingly large with several case shapes and sizes and many details to consider. Also, I would not rule out any size unless you have a very small wrist (Panerais are historically big watches, and are meant to be big).

A few preliminary questions to consider:

* do you want/need the crown guard?
* simple dial or complications?
* which case material?
* is a sandwich dial (what you referred to as “stencil”) a “must” (like it is for many) or do you prefer sausage?
* manual or automatic?
* do you need a date?

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

My only advice is as lockdown comes to an end, spend time (a lot of it) trying them on. You may be surprised.

Yes absolutely, websites, forums and opinions can provide good guidance but ultimately a watch has to be seen on the wrist, only then do you know if it is right for you.

My watches are all bought to wear, not to hide away in a dark place, they will get a scratch or two along the way as I won't baby them.

So once UK shops re-open I will make arrangements to visit dealers and start looking seriously with a view to purchase later in the year.

Thanks for the tip.

[ASW1]

The 1033 is a beaut, but don't underestimate the impact a domed crystal has on the look and feel of a Panerai. See pics for examples.

I would definitely suggest comparing 233 Vs 1033.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by Cru Jones

This is the right approach.

To the OP:

The Panerai range is surprisingly large with several case shapes and sizes and many details to consider. Also, I would not rule out any size unless you have a very small wrist (Panerais are historically big watches, and are meant to be big).

A few preliminary questions to consider:

* do you want/need the crown guard?
* simple dial or complications?
* which case material?
* is a sandwich dial (what you referred to as “stencil”) a “must” (like it is for many) or do you prefer sausage?
* manual or automatic?
* do you need a date?

In answer to your points;

Yes I am very much aware that Panerai's look and are large watches, this is what appeals to me but is also one of my concerns that they will be too big but if I have to go for a 42mm rather than the preferred 44mm so be it.

Answers to your questions;

Crown Guard - Yes this is very much part of the appeal, I do like the Radiomir but just not quite as much as the Luminor.

Complications - Not overly fussed, I love the simplicity of the dials with just the two hands or the small seconds at 9

Case material - Don't mind but not precious metal, the polished look probably appeals more than brushed but again until seen in the flesh......

Sandwich or Sausage - Sandwich would be preferred choice but again this will come down to how the watches look and fit on my wrist.

Manual or Auto - Really don't mind as have both in my collection at the moment, this is probably the least of my concerns.

Date - As with manual or auto, not overly bothered, it can be a useful feature but can also distract, but if a Sandwich watch only comes with a date complication then that's fine.

Thank you very much for making me think and consider these points it was a very worthwhile exercise. Based on my answers (or lack of) do you have any suggestions for consideration?

Thanks again.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by ASW1

The 1033 is a beaut, but don't underestimate the impact a domed crystal has on the look and feel of a Panerai. See pics for examples.

I would definitely suggest comparing 233 Vs 1033.

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

Wow, very nice watches, please excuse my ignorance but what is the Equation section of the dial, what does this do or is for?

I can see that choosing my Panerai is going to be difficult, so many great watches.

Thanks for replying, appreciate the input.

[ASW1]

See here re Equation of Time https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[Ravager135]

There is a ton of great advice already listed in this thread. Count my response here as just an additional vote to much of what was already said.

I think looking in the 44mm range is a good idea. The 1950s case and sandwich dial tend to be preferred case/dial options among Panerai collectors, but the deeper you get into the brand the more you begin to appreciate the other cases and dials as well. But to start, you are on the right track. A 233 is a classic option and is a favorite among Paneristi, but it might be a little too complicated as a first piece. A 1312/312 is a solid choice (and fits most of your requirements according to your most recent post), as is the 1033 that someone else mentioned above. They are extremely similar aside from the GMT and blue dial. I have personally looked at all three of these models. I am leaning towards the 233 mostly because I already own the 372 which is more of a simple, classic design. Years ago, I would have recommended the 111 or 112, but they are getting a little harder to find in good condition. Some people have a problem with the ETA movement, but they are very reliable. They come in the Pre-V (Luminor) case, but tick a lot of the boxes you have mentioned.

Some things to watch out for: I am a pretty vocal critic of the P5000 movement. I had two watches with this movement and found it ran extremely fast when fully wound. Many of the entry level "8 Day" watches come with this movement. I have been told by others that the newer P5000 movements aren't as bad, but I always feel it is worth sharing my experience. I think it is extremely important to try on ANY piece you are considering buying. Even among cases of identical diameter, many Panerai wear differently. The 233 wears unlike any other 44mm Luminor 1950.

For what it is worth, I currently own the 372 and 1305, but have owned the 024, 005, 610, and 563 in the past.

[1William]

I am a huge Panerai fan and have been involved with the brand since the early 2000's. I own a 720 and a 1616 right now and have 422 on order. Do yourself a favor and get out and look on Paneresti.com and read, read and read some more. There are a lot of issues with the brand and with over 400 different models introduced by them you can easily get lost. The brand is a money pit when it comes to non-LE/SE watches and you can see very easily what watches sell for new and then move onto the secondary market for. On the average watch the AD's can not discount enough to offset what you will lose on a trade or a sale. If you pay retail you will get crushed in a way that does not exist in the Rolex/PP world. All of this to say, take your time, go try on watches you are interested in and unless you are just wealthy and want to throw away money look to the pre-owned market or 25-30% discounts from AD's with them giving you several additional straps. Good luck, you are going to need it.

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by 1William

I am a huge Panerai fan and have been involved with the brand since the early 2000's. I own a 720 and a 1616 right now and have 422 on order. Do yourself a favor and get out and look on Paneresti.com and read, read and read some more. There are a lot of issues with the brand and with over 400 different models introduced by them you can easily get lost. The brand is a money pit when it comes to non-LE/SE watches and you can see very easily what watches sell for new and then move onto the secondary market for. On the average watch the AD's can not discount enough to offset what you will lose on a trade or a sale. If you pay retail you will get crushed in a way that does not exist in the Rolex/PP world. All of this to say, take your time, go try on watches you are interested in and unless you are just wealthy and want to throw away money look to the pre-owned market or 25-30% discounts from AD's with them giving you several additional straps. Good luck, you are going to need it.

Very solid, sobering advice here.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by ASW1

See here re Equation of Time https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/top...ink_source=app

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

Thank you, excellent reading material and some knowledge gained.

[rootbeer7]

To share further, my journey started with wanting a Radiomir, but none felt right. 42 and 45mm were underwhelming and 47mm felt much like a dinner plate. I found 44mm Bettarini case Luminor with manual movement (and therefore slimmer) perfect. I bought a 390 (limited and quite collectible). I then made the mistake of trying a 233 in the Boutique. 1950 case, sandwich dial, exhibition back and a vintage dome crystal. I was hooked. Luckily I located a very early first year model. It’s now my daily wearer.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

There is a ton of great advice already listed in this thread. Count my response here as just an additional vote to much of what was already said.

I think looking in the 44mm range is a good idea. The 1950s case and sandwich dial tend to be preferred case/dial options among Panerai collectors, but the deeper you get into the brand the more you begin to appreciate the other cases and dials as well. But to start, you are on the right track. A 233 is a classic option and is a favorite among Paneristi, but it might be a little too complicated as a first piece. A 1312/312 is a solid choice (and fits most of your requirements according to your most recent post), as is the 1033 that someone else mentioned above. They are extremely similar aside from the GMT and blue dial. I have personally looked at all three of these models. I am leaning towards the 233 mostly because I already own the 372 which is more of a simple, classic design. Years ago, I would have recommended the 111 or 112, but they are getting a little harder to find in good condition. Some people have a problem with the ETA movement, but they are very reliable. They come in the Pre-V (Luminor) case, but tick a lot of the boxes you have mentioned.

Some things to watch out for: I am a pretty vocal critic of the P5000 movement. I had two watches with this movement and found it ran extremely fast when fully wound. Many of the entry level "8 Day" watches come with this movement. I have been told by others that the newer P5000 movements aren't as bad, but I always feel it is worth sharing my experience. I think it is extremely important to try on ANY piece you are considering buying. Even among cases of identical diameter, many Panerai wear differently. The 233 wears unlike any other 44mm Luminor 1950.

For what it is worth, I currently own the 372 and 1305, but have owned the 024, 005, 610, and 563 in the past.

There is some very good advice in your post which is also very informative and for this I thank you.

Having spent an hour or three on the Panerai website and looking at various secondhand watch sites I have come up with 4 watches that I think would be worth exploring further, these are; 233, 1033, 1312 and 1359.

Now this is far from a definitive list and it may change in the weeks and months ahead but it will allow me to get more information on a small group of watches that I like rather than blundering around in the dark on various websites.

I have taken on board your comments on the P5000 calibre and will do further research, if anyone has any comments on the P5000 please add a comment below.

[enjoythemusic]

Great post Ravager135.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by 1William

I am a huge Panerai fan and have been involved with the brand since the early 2000's. I own a 720 and a 1616 right now and have 422 on order. Do yourself a favor and get out and look on Paneresti.com and read, read and read some more. There are a lot of issues with the brand and with over 400 different models introduced by them you can easily get lost. The brand is a money pit when it comes to non-LE/SE watches and you can see very easily what watches sell for new and then move onto the secondary market for. On the average watch the AD's can not discount enough to offset what you will lose on a trade or a sale. If you pay retail you will get crushed in a way that does not exist in the Rolex/PP world. All of this to say, take your time, go try on watches you are interested in and unless you are just wealthy and want to throw away money look to the pre-owned market or 25-30% discounts from AD's with them giving you several additional straps. Good luck, you are going to need it.

Excellent information thank you.

I am a buy to keep watch collector, I do lots of research, spend forever lying awake at night wondering if I am going in the right direction before letting the moths escape from my wallet as I splash the cash so ultimately I am not overly concerned with resale values and certainly not expecting Rolex retention values.

Your point about securing a good deal or buy via a reputable secondhand makes perfect sense, not point in spending money unnecessarily.

Im not going to make any purchasing decision until I have visited AD's and secondhand dealers to view, try and see the watches on my wrist.

Appreciate the input, now off to continue my research.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

To share further, my journey started with wanting a Radiomir, but none felt right. 42 and 45mm were underwhelming and 47mm felt much like a dinner plate. I found 44mm Bettarini case Luminor with manual movement (and therefore slimmer) perfect. I bought a 390 (limited and quite collectible). I then made the mistake of trying a 233 in the Boutique. 1950 case, sandwich dial, exhibition back and a vintage dome crystal. I was hooked. Luckily I located a very early first year model. It’s now my daily wearer.

Very nice, love the dial/strap contrast it is a great combination.

[ASW1]

Tell me the below isn't a beauty :)

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

[Ravager135]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

There is some very good advice in your post which is also very informative and for this I thank you.

Having spent an hour or three on the Panerai website and looking at various secondhand watch sites I have come up with 4 watches that I think would be worth exploring further, these are; 233, 1033, 1312 and 1359.

Now this is far from a definitive list and it may change in the weeks and months ahead but it will allow me to get more information on a small group of watches that I like rather than blundering around in the dark on various websites.

I have taken on board your comments on the P5000 calibre and will do further research, if anyone has any comments on the P5000 please add a comment below.

I think you have a very solid final four here. Most Paneristi will heavily steer you towards the 233 and how could I disagree... Of the references you listed, I think the 1312 checks the most boxes and has the least concerning drawbacks. Good luck.

[TswaneNguni]

If I had to do Panerai over again ,I would start with a PAM 127 Fiddy .Look for one complete with box and papers .

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

I think you have a very solid final four here. Most Paneristi will heavily steer you towards the 233 and how could I disagree... Of the references you listed, I think the 1312 checks the most boxes and has the least concerning drawbacks. Good luck.

Thanks for the feedback and advice, very much appreciated.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by ASW1

Tell me the below isn't a beauty :)

Sent from my moto g(7) power using Tapatalk

No argument from me, that 233 is stunning.

[pdnb]

Pre-owned 233... full stop!

Automatics will wear larger due to the rotors and shape of the case back


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[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by pdnb

Pre-owned 233... full stop!

Automatics will wear larger due to the rotors and shape of the case back


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the input, a pre-owned 233 could well be the answer to my search, I just need shops to re-open so that I can get out and try some on.