Quality of higher-end Seiko vs Rolex

[L_S_SHOE]

I've caught the Seiko bug. I intend to pick up an SRP777, but the more I look the more I'm thinking of also grabbing something a little bit nicer.

Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to handle a higher-end Seiko or Grand Seiko, so I can't answer this question by visiting an AD. I've been told the quality of a Grand Seiko is at least as good as a Rolex. How about something like the SLA033? Specifically, how is the overall fit and finish, and how does the movement compare? Is a $4k Seiko really on par with a $9k Sub? I'm not suggesting that it should be, just curious if it is.

[AF_Rob]

Oddly enough, I had my hands on one today. Co worker wore one and it's pretty nice.

Is this Seiko on par with a Sub? Not in my opinion. I wouldn't pay $4k for this watch. I'd pay up to 3 but not 4.

[dualcarb]

If you were to scrutinise...then one can say that the “higher end” Seiko, like the Grand Seiko has better fit and finish than a Rolex. Put it under a loupe, you will see the difference. But saying that, I tend to baby my grand Seiko more than my Rolex in fear of scratching it, because I look at it more like a work of art than a watch.




But on bracelet adjustability and comfort, nothing comes close to a Rolex. You will feel that it truly is a tool watch and is as tough as they come. I can wear my Submariner or GMT with a pair of shorts and a T shirt, or with a suit and a tie. The GS is not quite as casual.

You did mention about thinking of getting the SRP 777. Go for it, no regrets here...nice casual watch for just about everything. Shorter lug to lug length makes the case of the watch very wearable, even for my small six and a half inch wrists.


Mine is an SRP789 though, comes in a metal bracelet, but I very quickly changed it to an OEM rubber. Seiko is not known to have good bracelets.

Even with the newer SPB149J1, priced at around USD 1,300. The bracelets don’t fit that well, an awkward diver extension and are a little “clunky”.

But this watch has such a gorgeous dial, and comes with a super comfy silicon bracelet.


All in all...Seiko watches do give you value for your money and I can see why it has such a huge following...from the cheapest USD200 watch

to a USD 2,000 watch

to a Grand Seiko...they truly have a watch for everyone with every budget...good luck and have fun with a Seiko


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[AEC]

I recommend the SLA033.

I owned a 114060 for a couple of years. It's a wonderful watch, of course, but I paid MSRP (new) for what I would estimate was $4K worth of enjoyment.



Not long ago I purchased the SLA033 (pre-owned) for ~$3K, and I'm getting at least that same $4K worth of enjoyment. Probably more.



The best parts of the Rolex were its superb Oyster bracelet and Glidelock clasp. I loved the classic taper and handsome, satin finish. The case, though, with its fat lugs and sharp edges along the undersides, didn't suit me, and I didn't find it as comfortable as I would have liked (the Explorer 214270 gets this right, but I don't think the Sub does).

The Seiko is very well constructed and finished, is delicious to look at, and fits beautifully. The luster and finishes on the case, bezel, dial and hands are all very nice. It's a looker, much in the same way a contemporary Sub is. Caliber 8L35 is probably comparable to Caliber 3130, and my Seiko runs with the same accuracy and stability that my Rolex did.

I recommend that you give it a try. At market price for a pre-owned example, how can you go wrong?

[descartes]

I have an SLA017 (original MAS62 reissue) which I paid something like $3500 retail and now trades at a premium. It is super cool and well made. It was my favorite watch at Basel 2017 and I ordered from the floor of the convention.

That said, it doesn’t compare to the sport Rolex models that I have in terms of quality and presence. Rolex, especially the 6 digit models, really feel like a luxury watch. As cool as it is, I wouldn’t put the SLA 017 quite in that category.


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[TimeAZ]

Quality of GS is next-level. Finest craftsmanship and best finishing you can get in the price segment of $3k to $8k, in my opinion. Puts a lot of Swiss brands to shame, including the famous crown. I guess the difference is obvious, knowing that GS produces something like only 30,000 to 50,000 watches per year.

Some of the GS dials are eye-watering. Their design ethos is so beautiful, a lot of inspiration stems from deep respect and reverence towards nature. Lots of stunning GS models out there... the Snowflake, SBGH267, SBGH269, seasons collection, any of the SBGK series, and the new Soko series come to mind, among others. GS movements are also some of the best you will ever find. The 9F movement is insanely accurate and Spring Drive is an amazing technical innovation.

Fit is a totally different story. This is one area GS needs to work on. Most of their bracelets lack microadjustment, so if you cant find a happy solution using the half-links, tough luck. Also, no tool-less quick adjustment. Nobody beats Rolex in this regard. You simply cannot beat the fit and comfort of Rolex pieces, and their EZlink and GlideLock systems are genius. GS has a ratchet-style clasp, used in the SBGA231 and other sports-diver product lines, but that thing is a bulky, ugly, abomination. I suppose it's functional, but the execution is just poorly designed.

Another area of potential weakness is limited legibility, due to little (if any) lume on many of the GS models. In poor lighting situations, I could see how it might be difficult to read the time on many of the GS models out there.

[JTL31]

You ask a great question! One that I’m struggling w/myself. I’ll tell you why I recently opted for the Rolex OP 36 White vs. the GS SBGA413 Heritage Collection Spring edition. Granted, they are not the models you question...

While the GS dial, overall fit & finish blew the Rolex out of the water, the price is what I hedged on. Admittedly, I did get the OP in unworn, preowned condition; hence, the price was unbeatable. I opted for the OP because, (1) it is a daily driver for my lifestyle from casual to dress; the GS would be more limited to dress for me. (2) the waterproof robustness, versatility, & wearability of the OP won out. (3) my unfamiliarity w/GS repair costs, service intervals & service center locations was also a factor.

When funds permit, I will again seriously consider the GS, for it is an amazing watch; one that I truly wish to add to my collection! However, I felt the Rolex could play the part as a one & done watch; the GS would be an addition to a collection given the model I desire. Best wishes & good luck deciding! :)

[1William]

I am a huge fan of Rolex and Grand Seiko/Seiko and own 11 Rolex watches and 21 Seiko's. I do like my Rolex watches and fit and finish is outstanding. Bracelets are some of the best in the industry and the Glidelock and Easy Link systems are great. With that said, it is very hard to beat Seiko in the dollar for dollar, day to day wear on the watch. The SLA Divers are some of the best and while I acknowledge the bracelets and clasps are not the best they are good and quirky enough to be fun. The newly released SPB's are great and the 777 is a great watch but I would look at the King Turtle which has a sapphire crystal and ceramic bezel for slightly more money.

The SLA033 is my favorite and it gets some serious wrist time. Even if you pay retail for one you are at half of a Submariner, if you can get one from an AD. Take a look at the SLA021 and the blue dial SLA023. They wear great, come with a rubber strap and can take a beating and keep on moving. I get the Rolex ownership dynamic and I subscribe to it somewhat. Nice to own, proud that I could achieve the watch and I love the history and value retention. I would go get the Seiko I wanted, SLA033, and get on with wearing the watch and enjoying it. Read, learn and try on the others and in time get another. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

[toxicavenger]

It is according to what Rolex you are comparing it too. I do not believe the older Sub's are worth the price they are selling for today.

[eskiserkan]

SLA033 & 017 both are great watches. However, Seiko & Rolex at the same sentence wont sound OK at the market with a price range of above 4K.

[cjcarter134]

I have a SBGR017 and it is one of the finest watches in my collection. I mainly have dive and sport watches. I would put it's fit and finish up there with Rolex any day.

[icnbne]

Ive got the sla033 and the 019 and had the 025
Theyre fantastic watches, as well built as any rolex or omega
The only shortcoming is the bracelet (or the lack of in the case of the 33 and 25)

Had/have alot of entry/mid range seikos and the sla’s have really ruined those for me

[Chester01]

Yes, seiko is better in most cases. Look I have Rolex and love them, but people are lying to themselves if they think the finishing on their sub is near the quality of the GS.

The stamped hands, flat dials, GS’s finishing is on par with PP. someone on the PP section posted some macro shots of a PP and GS and GS’s finishing was superior. Where Rolex May win is on how tough their watches are. I feel that many of the seiko divers have a very similar look to Rolex and do their styling has not always been the most original compared to Rolex.

[toxicavenger]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Yes, seiko is better in most cases. Look I have Rolex and love them, but people are lying to themselves if they think the finishing on their sub is near the quality of the GS.

The stamped hands, flat dials, GS’s finishing is on par with PP. someone on the PP section posted some macro shots of a PP and GS and GS’s finishing was superior. Where Rolex May win is on how tough their watches are. I feel that many of the seiko divers have a very similar look to Rolex and do their styling has not always been the most original compared to Rolex.

Agreed. But I don't think one is really tougher than the other.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Chester01

Yes, seiko is better in most cases. Look I have Rolex and love them, but people are lying to themselves if they think the finishing on their sub is near the quality of the GS.

The stamped hands, flat dials, GS’s finishing is on par with PP. someone on the PP section posted some macro shots of a PP and GS and GS’s finishing was superior. Where Rolex May win is on how tough their watches are. I feel that many of the seiko divers have a very similar look to Rolex and do their styling has not always been the most original compared to Rolex.

Seiko has come up with more original diver designs (Tuna, Turtle, etc, etc), than Rolex, which has just based everything on the Submariner since the 1950s.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Seiko has come up with more original diver designs (Tuna, Turtle, etc, etc), than Rolex, which has just based everything on the Submariner since the 1950s.

Lol, yes come to think about it, the sub, gmt, sea dweller, DDSD, and even the yacht master are all basically the same design. When I was considering what seiko to get this year, I landed on the turtle precisely because I wanted a diver but something that did not look like a sub. The only other think close to the turtle is the doxa.


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[NardinNut]

Originally Posted by 1William

I am a huge fan of Rolex and Grand Seiko/Seiko and own 11 Rolex watches and 21 Seiko's. I do like my Rolex watches and fit and finish is outstanding. Bracelets are some of the best in the industry and the Glidelock and Easy Link systems are great. With that said, it is very hard to beat Seiko in the dollar for dollar, day to day wear on the watch. The SLA Divers are some of the best and while I acknowledge the bracelets and clasps are not the best they are good and quirky enough to be fun. The newly released SPB's are great and the 777 is a great watch but I would look at the King Turtle which has a sapphire crystal and ceramic bezel for slightly more money.



The SLA033 is my favorite and it gets some serious wrist time. Even if you pay retail for one you are at half of a Submariner, if you can get one from an AD. Take a look at the SLA021 and the blue dial SLA023. They wear great, come with a rubber strap and can take a beating and keep on moving. I get the Rolex ownership dynamic and I subscribe to it somewhat. Nice to own, proud that I could achieve the watch and I love the history and value retention. I would go get the Seiko I wanted, SLA033, and get on with wearing the watch and enjoying it. Read, learn and try on the others and in time get another. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Nice collection! I just bought the SLA037 and I’m blown away with it. Quality is definitely near my BLNR and cDaytona, and above my 16610 sub. I’ve started going down the Seiko rabbit hole and just bought (an hour ago) an SLA033. Very excited to try that one out.

After the SLA033 which is your next favorite?

[1William]

Take a look at the SLA035, a Limited Edition Blacked Out version on a strap. Wears great and is a sleeper in the lineup. Congratulations on the SLA033.

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Seiko has come up with more original diver designs (Tuna, Turtle, etc, etc), than Rolex, which has just based everything on the Submariner since the 1950s.

Originally Posted by Chester01

Lol, yes come to think about it, the sub, gmt, sea dweller, DDSD, and even the yacht master are all basically the same design. When I was considering what seiko to get this year, I landed on the turtle precisely because I wanted a diver but something that did not look like a sub. The only other think close to the turtle is the doxa.


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I'm not certain the differences are all about lack of creativity. The same difference could be pointed to in looking at Omega and Rolex. I believe that Rolex is very much about its design tradition and continuity of the models where as not so with most watch companies. For varied designs under the Rolex banner one only has to look at Tudor.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

I'm not certain the differences are all about lack of creativity. The same difference could be pointed to in looking at Omega and Rolex. I believe that Rolex is very much about its design tradition and continuity of the models where as not so with most watch companies. For varied designs under the Rolex banner one only has to look at Tudor.

Not really. Omega had been innovating antimagnetic movements in a big way and that could be argued is perhaps the most important aspect to movements now days as we are surrounded by magnetic phones, speakers, laptops, iPads, etc. Omega has been innovating in materials as well. Look, I love Rolex and if one really understands their history understands they used to be a company that innovates. I also live tudor, but their entire line looks backwards, the black bays, the heritage chrono, the ranger all are repacking of old designs. Now, nothing wrong with that per se, I for one love the 5 digit references, and like that tudor has resisted the urge to bloat their line. But Rolex often gets a pass on things that people hammer other brands on, I.e too much text on dials, date wheels colors that don’t match the dials, illegible chronos, etc.


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[quakeroatmeal]

Sorry to say but the bracelets on Grand Seiko leave MUCH to be desired when compared to a Rolex.

Especially if you're comparing it to a Subs bracelets with easy adjustment.

If GS upped their bracelet game it would be a totally different story, but they havent.

The GS dials are great though.

[cmhorner17]

I'll echo some of the above comments here - GS build quality is incredible. I'd put one against a Rolex any day. The only 'failing' are the metal bracelets. I feel almost all the Seiko's punch above their price points. I have a GS, an Astron, a Brian May edition, and a couple of the 'basic' pilot watches. That pretty much covers the main price points and I feel all of them were well worth what each of them cost respectively.

[Chester01]

Originally Posted by quakeroatmeal

Sorry to say but the bracelets on Grand Seiko leave MUCH to be desired when compared to a Rolex.

Especially if you're comparing it to a Subs bracelets with easy adjustment.

If GS upped their bracelet game it would be a totally different story, but they havent.

The GS dials are great though.

To be fair, I never tried on a GS bracelet, but can say my 16610 has the same bracelet as my turtle for all intents and purposes. What is the issue with the GS bracelets?

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by Chester01

To be fair, I never tried on a GS bracelet, but can say my 16610 has the same bracelet as my turtle for all intents and purposes. What is the issue with the GS bracelets?

There are different kinds and some are fine, some not so much (divers for instance, but all my Seiko divers are on rubber anyway). The one on my SBGT235 is my favourite bracelet of all - small clasp yet secure, light and super easy to open and close; it's way better than that clunky thing on my Milgauss. There's no easy adjustment but the fit I got with the half-links has been fine for me. with no need for any

[mgsooner]

Good thread. One area I think GS needs to work on is thickness. I'm currently looking hard at the SBGR251, which ticks SO many boxes for what I'm looking for in my next piece. However the thing is MASSIVELY thick for some incomprehensible reason. There's simply no reason an automatic 37mm time + date should be over 13mm thick. Shave 2mm off of that and I'd be a buyer in a heartbeat.

Even the GS pieces in their "elegance" line tend to be thick. The time + date SBGR261 is over 13mm thick. To their credit GS seems to recognize this is an issue and has started to rectify it. The new SBGA427/429 is just a shade over 12. A step in the right direction.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

Good thread. One area I think GS needs to work on is thickness. I'm currently looking hard at the SBGR251, which ticks SO many boxes for what I'm looking for in my next piece. However the thing is MASSIVELY thick for some incomprehensible reason. There's simply no reason an automatic 37mm time + date should be over 13mm thick. Shave 2mm off of that and I'd be a buyer in a heartbeat.

Even the GS pieces in their "elegance" line tend to be thick. The time + date SBGR261 is over 13mm thick. To their credit GS seems to recognize this is an issue and has started to rectify it. The new SBGA427/429 is just a shade over 12. A step in the right direction.

Mine in the post just above is 9.9mm if you don't mind 9F quartz

[mgsooner]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Mine in the post just above is 9.9mm if you don't mind 9F quartz

Yes they make some beautiful quartz pieces and there are also the manual wind references that trim down the thickness level. In fact another one I'm taking a long look at is the manual SBGW235 that comes on a beads of rice bracelet. Simple yet stunning watch.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by mgsooner

Yes they make some beautiful quartz pieces and there are also the manual wind references that trim down the thickness level. In fact another one I'm taking a long look at is the manual SBGW235 that comes on a beads of rice bracelet. Simple yet stunning watch.

Yeah, that's a real beauty. Looks like it has the same clasp as mine, too.

[Snake Plissken]

If we're talking about the really high end Seikos, the Micro Artist Studio pieces, Rolex doesn't have anything that even comes close :)

For the standard GS line, I think the fit and finish definitely is a step above Rolex but it's not dramatic enough for me to seriously influence my purchase decision. For me the main draw is Spring Drive.

[DoctorA]

The dial, the bracelet and case details, the accuracy and movement are step above Rolex for sure!

If GS follow the following principles, it will dominate
1- stop making a million limited editions
2- realize its price bracket that keeps it in the sweet spot. There MUST be at least $2+k price difference for not having the crown on a similar model
3- we have Toyota and Lexus (not grant Toyota) separating the name from “seiko” would bring more attention.
4- while it has beautiful cases, there need to be more case variations
5- finally develop a unique personality by creating more complications that are “seiko unique design”

IMHO GS is the best value and most bang for the buck! You get a heck of a watch with equal or better quality for a significantly less price than its Swiss competitor!!