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Nick9 · 2 February 2021, 11:38 AM

Here’s one that has me stumped.

An antique dealer buddy today showed me a 1603 from 1972 that he recently bought. I took a good look and the watch seems all correct and in good working order.

But I’m not that knowledgeable about vintage Rolex bracelets — I’ve seen lots, but I know there are many variants and lots of aftermarket fakes. The end links on this one (sorry, no picture) looked far off.

I did get a picture of the clasp, and it’s posted below. The bracelet was a Jubilee, or perhaps a Jubilee clone.

Anyway my friend and I would welcome welcome any thoughts on whether the clasp pictured below is the real thing.

Thanks in advance, I sure appreciate it.

JustinK · 2 February 2021, 11:49 AM

It’s real and the end links are unmarked on these bracelets.

Actually a very comfortable bracelet, I wear on with my 70s GMT.

springer · 2 February 2021, 11:50 AM

It's a genuine, vintage USA Jubilee. They were made up to the later part of the 1970s.

Nick9 · 2 February 2021, 12:26 PM

Wow, you guys are good. And fast....didn’t even have time to get a coffee.

Very much appreciated. Can’t thank you enough.

lhendrickson · 3 February 2021, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick9

Wow, you guys are good. And fast....didn’t even have time to get a coffee.

Very much appreciated. Can’t thank you enough.

This place is rad! Glad you got an expedient answer and swell bracelet.

Nick9 · 3 February 2021, 03:27 AM

Well, here’s an update.

Apparently I lit up when I looked at the watch (perfect Sigma pie pan dial) and so it was offered to me. After some friendly back and forth on the value, I will get it in a day or so.

I like it a lot when a good watch falls from the sky with no hunting, especially when it’s local and I know the seller personally. The bracelet will need some work, but of course the various “consumables” are not a big factor.

When I get it, I’ll post a picture of the end links. Might be lucky on those also.

Thanks again for all the help.

TimeLord2 · 3 February 2021, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick9

Well, here’s an update.

Apparently I lit up when I looked at the watch (perfect Sigma pie pan dial) and so it was offered to me. After some friendly back and forth on the value, I will get it in a day or so.

I like it a lot when a good watch falls from the sky with no hunting, especially when it’s local and I know the seller personally. The bracelet will need some work, but of course the various “consumables” are not a big factor.

When I get it, I’ll post a picture of the end links. Might be lucky on those also.

Thanks again for all the help.

Looks like a great candidate for a Bracelet rebuild. Rolliworks.

timnik · 3 February 2021, 06:21 AM

I've got an oval link USA Jubilee which came with my dads 1675 GMT (1969)

It was almost falling apart. I sent it to MY in 2006. I didn't wear it for years because the end links were a really bad fit. After reading a thread on here I decided to try it again with some swiss 580 endlinks from my 62510 jubilee.

What a huge difference. I wear the oval link jubilee all the time now. I like the big crown clasps on the USA models.

Richard Carver · 3 February 2021, 06:50 AM

Mmmmmm, oval link. :)

Perfectly broken in and smooth as silk. :)

cfracing · 3 February 2021, 08:32 AM

Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I didn't want to start a similar thread. I have a 16013 two-tone Datejust from '78-'79 with a USA made TT Jubilee bracelet. Does anyone know which DJs got Swiss-made bracelets and which got USA made, and why? Also, I am sending this bracelet to Michael Young because it is extremely stretched. MY charges almost twice as much ($400 vs $265) to work on a USA bracelet than a Swiss one. Does anyone know why?

crowncollection · 3 February 2021, 09:26 AM

Depends on the market it was intended for only heads were shipped to countries licensed to make bands due to taxes at the time

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nick9 · 4 February 2021, 06:04 AM

Hi, all. The saga continues and of course along come a few more questions for the group.

First picture is the dial, taken at an angle to show the texture. I thought it was a linen dial, but now I’m not sure whether it has another name. The bottom text is T SWISS T, with the Sigma marks. No issues I can detect.

Second and third pictures are the bracelet. Someone above mentioned unmarked end links. These are unmarked (second picture) but a shape I haven’t seen before and they are not a particularly good fit. So my questions for the wizards here — are these end links legit? And if not, which ones should I be looking for?

The third picture is just for posterity, showing the stretch in the bracelet. I’m sure we’ve seen worse, but pretty bad. Interesting repair to the clasp — sometime in the past, an extra hole was drilled into the side of the clasp so that the watch would wear tighter. I guess that didn’t work — one side has the extra hole, one doesn’t.

This is the third McGuyvered Rolex bracelet I’ve seen in just the past year and I’m wondering whether it is common, or if I’ve been travelling under the “innovative watch guy let me have a go at that” cloud.

As usual, all comments welcome and thank you in advance.

baumare · 4 February 2021, 08:00 AM

The dial looks like a linen dial from this photo...

For the end links you can find some info in this discussion
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=787648

timnik · 5 February 2021, 03:37 AM

See the very poor fit of those USA Jubilee end links.

My dad wore a USA Jubilee oval link bracelet on a 1969 1675 GMT up to 2004.

Because of the bad fit they have contributed to almost wearing away the serial number on the case lug.

Fortunately I inherited the watch and it now has either Swiss 558 for the Jubilee or 580 when I use the Oyster. The Swiss 558 work fine with a USA Jubilee on a GMT.

They look so much better as well.

Nick9 · 5 February 2021, 05:59 AM

Thanks, guys. Interesting read about the fitment issues.

Still not sure if the end links pictured could be genuine? And, timnik, is it the 258 Swiss that you are also suggesting for my DJ? It’s 20 mm, on a strap for the time being.

Thanks.

Yachtbuoy · 5 February 2021, 08:00 AM

I'm not as familiar with the USA bracelets but it looks like the wear pattern on the underside of the lugs is consistent with the end links, and it takes time for that wear pattern to occur. Looks good!

timnik · 5 February 2021, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick9

Thanks, guys. Interesting read about the fitment issues.

Still not sure if the end links pictured could be genuine? And, timnik, is it the 258 Swiss that you are also suggesting for my DJ? It’s 20 mm, on a strap for the time being.

Thanks.

I think 555.

They will fit a DateJust

springer · 5 February 2021, 09:04 AM

The end links depicted in the photos are original oval link end links. USA bracelets did not come with stamped end links except for occasionally you will find some with the number 50 stamped on the left ear which were probably GMT end links.

Nick9 · 5 February 2021, 12:54 PM

Certainly enjoyed hearing the good news on the bracelet.

Lucky to find this watch and lucky to have all your generous help.

Thanks to all.

2 February 2021, 11:38 AM	#1
Nick9 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Ontario Posts: 378	Curious About Bracelet Clasp Here’s one that has me stumped. An antique dealer buddy today showed me a 1603 from 1972 that he recently bought. I took a good look and the watch seems all correct and in good working order. But I’m not that knowledgeable about vintage Rolex bracelets — I’ve seen lots, but I know there are many variants and lots of aftermarket fakes. The end links on this one (sorry, no picture) looked far off. I did get a picture of the clasp, and it’s posted below. The bracelet was a Jubilee, or perhaps a Jubilee clone. Anyway my friend and I would welcome welcome any thoughts on whether the clasp pictured below is the real thing. Thanks in advance, I sure appreciate it. Attached Images

2 February 2021, 11:50 AM	#3
springer 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: jP Location: Texas Watch: GMT-MASTER Posts: 17,319	It's a genuine, vintage USA Jubilee. They were made up to the later part of the 1970s. __________________ Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics.

3 February 2021, 08:32 AM	#10
cfracing "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Texas Posts: 216	Don't mean to hijack this thread, but I didn't want to start a similar thread. I have a 16013 two-tone Datejust from '78-'79 with a USA made TT Jubilee bracelet. Does anyone know which DJs got Swiss-made bracelets and which got USA made, and why? Also, I am sending this bracelet to Michael Young because it is extremely stretched. MY charges almost twice as much ($400 vs $265) to work on a USA bracelet than a Swiss one. Does anyone know why?
$cfracing is offline$

3 February 2021, 09:26 AM	#11
crowncollection "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Real Name: David Location: australia Posts: 20,216	Depends on the market it was intended for only heads were shipped to countries licensed to make bands due to taxes at the time Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ watches many

4 February 2021, 06:04 AM	#12
Nick9 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Ontario Posts: 378	Hi, all. The saga continues and of course along come a few more questions for the group. First picture is the dial, taken at an angle to show the texture. I thought it was a linen dial, but now I’m not sure whether it has another name. The bottom text is T SWISS T, with the Sigma marks. No issues I can detect. Second and third pictures are the bracelet. Someone above mentioned unmarked end links. These are unmarked (second picture) but a shape I haven’t seen before and they are not a particularly good fit. So my questions for the wizards here — are these end links legit? And if not, which ones should I be looking for? The third picture is just for posterity, showing the stretch in the bracelet. I’m sure we’ve seen worse, but pretty bad. Interesting repair to the clasp — sometime in the past, an extra hole was drilled into the side of the clasp so that the watch would wear tighter. I guess that didn’t work — one side has the extra hole, one doesn’t. This is the third McGuyvered Rolex bracelet I’ve seen in just the past year and I’m wondering whether it is common, or if I’ve been travelling under the “innovative watch guy let me have a go at that” cloud. As usual, all comments welcome and thank you in advance. Attached Images

2 February 2021, 11:49 AM	#2
JustinK 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Real Name: Justin Location: Jupiter, FL Watch: 1530,1665,1680 Posts: 2,064	It’s real and the end links are unmarked on these bracelets. Actually a very comfortable bracelet, I wear on with my 70s GMT.

2 February 2021, 12:26 PM	#4
Nick9 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Ontario Posts: 378	Wow, you guys are good. And fast....didn’t even have time to get a coffee. Very much appreciated. Can’t thank you enough.

3 February 2021, 03:27 AM	#6
Nick9 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Ontario Posts: 378	Well, here’s an update. Apparently I lit up when I looked at the watch (perfect Sigma pie pan dial) and so it was offered to me. After some friendly back and forth on the value, I will get it in a day or so. I like it a lot when a good watch falls from the sky with no hunting, especially when it’s local and I know the seller personally. The bracelet will need some work, but of course the various “consumables” are not a big factor. When I get it, I’ll post a picture of the end links. Might be lucky on those also. Thanks again for all the help.

3 February 2021, 06:21 AM	#8
timnik "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 120	I've got an oval link USA Jubilee which came with my dads 1675 GMT (1969) It was almost falling apart. I sent it to MY in 2006. I didn't wear it for years because the end links were a really bad fit. After reading a thread on here I decided to try it again with some swiss 580 endlinks from my 62510 jubilee. What a huge difference. I wear the oval link jubilee all the time now. I like the big crown clasps on the USA models.

3 February 2021, 06:50 AM	#9
Richard Carver "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: US Posts: 2,237	Mmmmmm, oval link. :) Perfectly broken in and smooth as silk. :)

4 February 2021, 08:00 AM	#13
baumare "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Real Name: mario Location: NY-USA Watch: Rolex 1675/8 Posts: 535	The dial looks like a linen dial from this photo... For the end links you can find some info in this discussion https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=787648

5 February 2021, 03:37 AM	#14
timnik "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 120	See the very poor fit of those USA Jubilee end links. My dad wore a USA Jubilee oval link bracelet on a 1969 1675 GMT up to 2004. Because of the bad fit they have contributed to almost wearing away the serial number on the case lug. Fortunately I inherited the watch and it now has either Swiss 558 for the Jubilee or 580 when I use the Oyster. The Swiss 558 work fine with a USA Jubilee on a GMT. They look so much better as well.

5 February 2021, 05:59 AM	#15
Nick9 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Ontario Posts: 378	Thanks, guys. Interesting read about the fitment issues. Still not sure if the end links pictured could be genuine? And, timnik, is it the 258 Swiss that you are also suggesting for my DJ? It’s 20 mm, on a strap for the time being. Thanks.

5 February 2021, 08:00 AM	#16
Yachtbuoy "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2020 Location: Australia Watch: 1603 & 25407N Posts: 351	I'm not as familiar with the USA bracelets but it looks like the wear pattern on the underside of the lugs is consistent with the end links, and it takes time for that wear pattern to occur. Looks good!

5 February 2021, 09:04 AM	#18
springer 2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Real Name: jP Location: Texas Watch: GMT-MASTER Posts: 17,319	The end links depicted in the photos are original oval link end links. USA bracelets did not come with stamped end links except for occasionally you will find some with the number 50 stamped on the left ear which were probably GMT end links. __________________ Member of NAWCC since 1990. INSTAGRAM USER NAME: SPRINGERJFP Visit my Instagram page to view some of the finest vintage GMTs anywhere - as well as other vintage classics.

5 February 2021, 12:54 PM	#19
Nick9 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Ontario Posts: 378	Certainly enjoyed hearing the good news on the bracelet. Lucky to find this watch and lucky to have all your generous help. Thanks to all.

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