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karmatp · 25 May 2009, 05:41 AM

Man, these Pam's are getting to me lately. I am finding myself searching different sites and trying to learn about different models and keep track of all the different model numbers, it's madness.

Years ago I almost bought a panerai, this was going to be my first expensive mechanical, I had already owned many vintage military models that were mechanical and wanted something more modern. That day I drove around hitting different AD's looking at Omega's, Rolex's and Panerai models, I came home with a 14060m sub. Since then I have not looked back, owning a couple of handful of Rolex sport models over the years and a Omega seamaster. I have been really happy but now I am finding that I am getting sick of bracelets.

Lately I have been really looking at the Omega Speedmaster, thinking that it looks sharp on leather straps and nylon zulu's, but now I am having second thoughts........the Pam bug is starting to make me second guess my next watch purchase.

I find that I am really attracted to the titanium pam's and also the pvd models. My concern is that the titanium seem like it would scratch easily, does it??????? I mean, titanium is softer than steel right? Also, do the pvd models look bad when they get some scratches? I absolutely love the thought of having a non polished pam model with a nice variety of straps, especially the kinda vintage looking ones. Anyway, just looking for a ear and some advice, and of course some pics. of some of the models that are titanium or pvd that you would recommend. OH, one more question, I swim pretty much every day, and that is one of the things that attracts me to Rolex, it's the do anything watch. Do current panerai owners treat their watches like this, swimming in the backyard, lifting at the gym, and so on just like the indestructible Rolex sport models that I am so fond of. Thanks to all in advance for your advice.

argee1977 · 25 May 2009, 05:56 AM

You'd better forget about PVD models, they're hard to get and go for twice MRSP as a premium. The titanium models are nice enough, but yes they will mark up a bit easier than SS, but it's a simple case of getting it back to new by either getting a watchmaker to give it a polish or do it yourself with a fibre pen and scotchbrite.

JF23 · 25 May 2009, 07:37 AM

Hi Trevor

Another option is to send your PAM out for PVD. There are a few guys who do it, it's not for everbody (purists) but IMO they look smokin.

Only downside is the wait can be months. On the plus side, aftermarket PVD jobs hold there value well and can also recoup costs plus some depending on market conditions. As Ryan stated OEM PVD models are $$$ and hard to get. One of our members Oyster21 has his 111 PVD'd by IWW for sale now. I also have a watch with Jack at IWW getting "The Treatment" and hope to have her home soon.

As far as how they stand up maybe Jackson will be along, he can speak for titanium. Deep scratches will show metal on the PVD treated PAM's.

Good luck with the hunt!

karmatp · 25 May 2009, 09:18 AM

It sounds like the titanium might be the way to go. I saw a 117 for sale today and it looked pretty sharp, man, they make some great looking watches.

I also saw this one, #4 is the Pam 00, this is one amazing looking watch, and that strap is stunning, and it has the pvd coating, I wonder if it came that way?

http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php...936#msg_302705

GBJIV · 25 May 2009, 12:09 PM

Trevor, my experience with Titanium and I believe Steve's Lol-X is that it holds up very well. My PAM 177ti is 5 years old and I think it still looks great. Titanium is very strong. Not sure how it compares to SS. I know you mentioned PVD... another option would be DLC (Diamond Like Coating) which in theory is 5 times stronger than Steel and very durable. As most items in the PAM world they can be a bit tricky to get a hold of.

I really don't think you can go wrong with a PAM. Based on other posts that we have been on together PLC vs. non PLC - I really think PAM would be an interesting choice for you.

Rugged - Yes
Waterproof - Definitely
Good size - 44, 45 and even 47mm All look great!
Straps - Switching it up and not worrying about the bracelet at all!!!! - Priceless (okay, not quite but, it's pretty nice.

No doubt that Rolex is awesome. In every sense of the word. However, I think you would enjoy very much the diversity a PAM can offer. Rotating it in with PAM's you have the best of both worlds. Just because you love Rolex and we all do - does not mean there is not enough love to go around!

Okay, I think you should check them out!!!

Also, don't rule out the Subs - For a firefighter guy (I think you are a firefighter guy...) I think a sweet ti model or even a submersible would be really cool for you. like 243 - or 285 which has ti integrated as part of the case

Here are some pics of my 2004 PAM 177

B. Doggy · 25 May 2009, 12:12 PM

I'd say that PVD is a quite personal thing when it comes to watches, PAM included. Keep this in mind, buy what sings to you, and post pictures when you get one! I love to see this wonderful Panerai community growing!!!

karmatp · 25 May 2009, 12:18 PM

Thanks for the feedback guys, very interesting stuff. Jackson, I love your 177, that might be the way I go. I feel like I have lots to learn about the Panerai brand, so all your comments are very appreciated, I am learning lots reading your posts.

GBJIV · 25 May 2009, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karmatp

Thanks for the feedback guys, very interesting stuff. Jackson, I love your 177, that might be the way I go. I feel like I have lots to learn about the Panerai brand, so all your comments are very appreciated, I am learning lots reading your posts.

Thank you very much for the compliment! This truly is a great community.

Best,

Trurolexer · 25 May 2009, 07:34 PM

WELCOME TO THE BLUESIDE

beaujarle · 25 May 2009, 09:33 PM

Don't fight...JUST SUCCUMB TO IT!!!!

c2tcardin · 25 May 2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beaujarle

Don't fight...JUST SUCCUMB TO IT!!!!

Well said!

I started on Rolex and Omega too but the itch just wouldn't go away until I bought the 111.

Keep us posted on what you decide to do.

Trurolexer · 25 May 2009, 10:38 PM

Please read this wise words...I'm A Lover, Not A Fighter...

Don't fight it, just love it!!!

BigHat · 25 May 2009, 11:13 PM

Amid a serious bout of temptation on a 249 right now. Know it's not the time to buy but....I want one.

Not my pic, but I'd find this strap for mine too:

mfer · 25 May 2009, 11:46 PM

You'll love the 177 in addition to your Rolex and Omega's. There is something about these historic beauties that just fits perfectly.

If you consider the 177 also look around at the painted historic ones. There is a 61 which has a tobacco dial and paint. I LOVE THAT WATCH. Here is an example and "only" about a grand more than a 177.

http://www.watches24seven.com/galler...g2_itemId=3470

This guy (Bruce) is also a good seller for Pams. He has both a 177 and 61! There are some more models that are Titanium as well that have paint/tobacco combos. The ultimate would be the 36, but it is a bit expensive. The 4 liner Special Edition with a tobacco dial. YUMMY.
http://www.watches24seven.com/galler...2_itemId=11761

Good luck and get one soon. You won't regret it!

Gaijin · 26 May 2009, 12:14 AM

Do they make a Panerai with a metal bracelet? If so, I might be interested...

Yes, I might...

mfer · 26 May 2009, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KansaiVet

Do they make a Panerai with a metal bracelet? If so, I might be interested...

Yes, I might...

They do, but they are heavy, unless you go Ti. The 44mm models are 24mm lugs. There is no taper to the band. The 40mm models are 22mm, again with no taper. The newer style bracelets are lighter, but they don't look as cool IMO.

karmatp · 26 May 2009, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mfer

You'll love the 177 in addition to your Rolex and Omega's. There is something about these historic beauties that just fits perfectly.

If you consider the 177 also look around at the painted historic ones. There is a 61 which has a tobacco dial and paint. I LOVE THAT WATCH. Here is an example and "only" about a grand more than a 177.

http://www.watches24seven.com/galler...g2_itemId=3470

This guy (Bruce) is also a good seller for Pams. He has both a 177 and 61! There are some more models that are Titanium as well that have paint/tobacco combos. The ultimate would be the 36, but it is a bit expensive. The 4 liner Special Edition with a tobacco dial. YUMMY.
http://www.watches24seven.com/galler...2_itemId=11761

Good luck and get one soon. You won't regret it!

Great links, thanks. I still have a hard time understanding why some of these models are commanding such a premium, seems to me like Panerai models are better investments than rolex models. I don't ever buy a watch for a investment, I wear them and don't look back, but dang, there are some expensive Pam's floating around.

mfer · 26 May 2009, 07:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karmatp

Great links, thanks. I still have a hard time understanding why some of these models are commanding such a premium, seems to me like Panerai models are better investments than rolex models. I don't ever buy a watch for a investment, I wear them and don't look back, but dang, there are some expensive Pam's floating around.

Much of the premium is due to tightly controlled millesimation. The 36 I showed you only has 200 of those watches ever made! The tobacco dials are more historic and consequently, Panerai controls the number of watches made with tobacco dials much more closely.

Here is a good link to show you the number produced each year by model. Again, be careful what you buy. Just b/c the production numbers are low, doesn't mean the watch is necessarily popular. There have been quite a few "duds" with low production numbers.

http://www.paneristi.com/reference/s...stimation.html

Good luck, the hunt is fun. After awhile, you won't even see the numbers. Someone will say 88, you'll think of a 44mm Lum 4 hander. Right now, I'm lusting after the beautiful 2 handed 210 that I want to put gold hands on!!!

25 May 2009, 05:41 AM	#1
karmatp "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Real Name: Trevor Location: Arizona Posts: 5,740	Fighting the urge Man, these Pam's are getting to me lately. I am finding myself searching different sites and trying to learn about different models and keep track of all the different model numbers, it's madness. Years ago I almost bought a panerai, this was going to be my first expensive mechanical, I had already owned many vintage military models that were mechanical and wanted something more modern. That day I drove around hitting different AD's looking at Omega's, Rolex's and Panerai models, I came home with a 14060m sub. Since then I have not looked back, owning a couple of handful of Rolex sport models over the years and a Omega seamaster. I have been really happy but now I am finding that I am getting sick of bracelets. Lately I have been really looking at the Omega Speedmaster, thinking that it looks sharp on leather straps and nylon zulu's, but now I am having second thoughts........the Pam bug is starting to make me second guess my next watch purchase. I find that I am really attracted to the titanium pam's and also the pvd models. My concern is that the titanium seem like it would scratch easily, does it??????? I mean, titanium is softer than steel right? Also, do the pvd models look bad when they get some scratches? I absolutely love the thought of having a non polished pam model with a nice variety of straps, especially the kinda vintage looking ones. Anyway, just looking for a ear and some advice, and of course some pics. of some of the models that are titanium or pvd that you would recommend. OH, one more question, I swim pretty much every day, and that is one of the things that attracts me to Rolex, it's the do anything watch. Do current panerai owners treat their watches like this, swimming in the backyard, lifting at the gym, and so on just like the indestructible Rolex sport models that I am so fond of. Thanks to all in advance for your advice. __________________ My grails:

25 May 2009, 05:56 AM	#2
argee1977 "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Real Name: Ryan Location: England Watch: AP ROC Posts: 1,462	You'd better forget about PVD models, they're hard to get and go for twice MRSP as a premium. The titanium models are nice enough, but yes they will mark up a bit easier than SS, but it's a simple case of getting it back to new by either getting a watchmaker to give it a polish or do it yourself with a fibre pen and scotchbrite. __________________ PANERAI, MORE THAN A WATCH, LESS THAN A KITKAT

25 May 2009, 12:09 PM	#5
GBJIV "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: Jackson Location: So. California Posts: 2,893	Trevor, my experience with Titanium and I believe Steve's Lol-X is that it holds up very well. My PAM 177ti is 5 years old and I think it still looks great. Titanium is very strong. Not sure how it compares to SS. I know you mentioned PVD... another option would be DLC (Diamond Like Coating) which in theory is 5 times stronger than Steel and very durable. As most items in the PAM world they can be a bit tricky to get a hold of. I really don't think you can go wrong with a PAM. Based on other posts that we have been on together PLC vs. non PLC - I really think PAM would be an interesting choice for you. Rugged - Yes Waterproof - Definitely Good size - 44, 45 and even 47mm All look great! Straps - Switching it up and not worrying about the bracelet at all!!!! - Priceless (okay, not quite but, it's pretty nice. No doubt that Rolex is awesome. In every sense of the word. However, I think you would enjoy very much the diversity a PAM can offer. Rotating it in with PAM's you have the best of both worlds. Just because you love Rolex and we all do - does not mean there is not enough love to go around! Okay, I think you should check them out!!! Also, don't rule out the Subs - For a firefighter guy (I think you are a firefighter guy...) I think a sweet ti model or even a submersible would be really cool for you. like 243 - or 285 which has ti integrated as part of the case Here are some pics of my 2004 PAM 177 Attached Images __________________ Jackson

25 May 2009, 12:12 PM	#6
B. Doggy "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Real Name: Bryan Location: Oregon Posts: 7,399	I'd say that PVD is a quite personal thing when it comes to watches, PAM included. Keep this in mind, buy what sings to you, and post pictures when you get one! I love to see this wonderful Panerai community growing!!! __________________ Rolex / Panerai / Omega

25 May 2009, 12:18 PM	#7
karmatp "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Real Name: Trevor Location: Arizona Posts: 5,740	Thanks for the feedback guys, very interesting stuff. Jackson, I love your 177, that might be the way I go. I feel like I have lots to learn about the Panerai brand, so all your comments are very appreciated, I am learning lots reading your posts. __________________ My grails:

25 May 2009, 07:37 AM	#3
JF23 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: S Florida Posts: 1,899	Hi Trevor Another option is to send your PAM out for PVD. There are a few guys who do it, it's not for everbody (purists) but IMO they look smokin. Only downside is the wait can be months. On the plus side, aftermarket PVD jobs hold there value well and can also recoup costs plus some depending on market conditions. As Ryan stated OEM PVD models are $$$ and hard to get. One of our members Oyster21 has his 111 PVD'd by IWW for sale now. I also have a watch with Jack at IWW getting "The Treatment" and hope to have her home soon. As far as how they stand up maybe Jackson will be along, he can speak for titanium. Deep scratches will show metal on the PVD treated PAM's. Good luck with the hunt!

25 May 2009, 09:18 AM	#4
karmatp "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Real Name: Trevor Location: Arizona Posts: 5,740	It sounds like the titanium might be the way to go. I saw a 117 for sale today and it looked pretty sharp, man, they make some great looking watches. I also saw this one, #4 is the Pam 00, this is one amazing looking watch, and that strap is stunning, and it has the pvd coating, I wonder if it came that way? http://forums.watchnet.com/index.php...936#msg_302705 __________________ My grails:

25 May 2009, 07:34 PM	#9
Trurolexer Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA Watch: 5513MaxiI+PreComex Posts: 18,421	WELCOME TO THE BLUESIDE

25 May 2009, 09:33 PM	#10
beaujarle "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: DXB Posts: 166	Don't fight...JUST SUCCUMB TO IT!!!! __________________ PAM 183, Q series & PAM 531, R Series DJII green Romans Sub C LV "The Hulk" GMT II K Serial, Submariner TT LB Milgauss GV and PAM 111 - FLIPPED!! Oris TT3 Day/Date, Seamaster 2254.50

25 May 2009, 10:38 PM	#12
Trurolexer Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: USA Watch: 5513MaxiI+PreComex Posts: 18,421	Please read this wise words...I'm A Lover, Not A Fighter... Don't fight it, just love it!!!

25 May 2009, 11:13 PM	#13
BigHat Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Real Name: Matt Location: Arlington, VA Watch: Lange One MP Posts: 4,043	Amid a serious bout of temptation on a 249 right now. Know it's not the time to buy but....I want one. Not my pic, but I'd find this strap for mine too: Attached Images

25 May 2009, 11:46 PM	#14
mfer "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Real Name: Mik Location: USA Posts: 13,724	You'll love the 177 in addition to your Rolex and Omega's. There is something about these historic beauties that just fits perfectly. If you consider the 177 also look around at the painted historic ones. There is a 61 which has a tobacco dial and paint. I LOVE THAT WATCH. Here is an example and "only" about a grand more than a 177. http://www.watches24seven.com/galler...g2_itemId=3470 This guy (Bruce) is also a good seller for Pams. He has both a 177 and 61! There are some more models that are Titanium as well that have paint/tobacco combos. The ultimate would be the 36, but it is a bit expensive. The 4 liner Special Edition with a tobacco dial. YUMMY. http://www.watches24seven.com/galler...2_itemId=11761 Good luck and get one soon. You won't regret it! __________________ member#3242

26 May 2009, 12:14 AM	#15
Gaijin 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Japan Watch: ing your back. Posts: 16,179	Do they make a Panerai with a metal bracelet? If so, I might be interested... Yes, I might...

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