New Air-King shows +2 sec a day

[Kap007]

My new 116900 (which is the coolest watch ever) has been running consistently at +27 seconds a day. I got it on Sept. 9, wore a day, and noticed the gain. I took it off and didn't touch crown up. The watch held perfectly for just under 48 hours. I have not taken the watch off since (shower and sleep with watch on). On this past Thursday I took to a CW-21 cert. watchmaker. We sat and talked watches and I saw with my own two eyes that both of his machines my watch ran at +2 sec a day with an amplitude of 316 I think. He refused to regulate which I agreed with. Anyone know what is going on? I'm a type A personality, could that be it? Thanx

[Ashton_Horologist]

Over banking, most likely. This has been a common thread recently. Take it to the watchmaker and have him perform this test - put it on the timing machine and wind the watch and just keep some resistant on the crown. The watch will most likely start to gallop like a horse. That is most likely the cause. It’s a very common problem with 3135 movements.

They would come in to the service center all the time with this issue.

[Kap007]

Thanx. What does it take to fix this issue? Have to leave it kinda deal?

[Tools]

Hope that it gets figured out. If the issue can't be repeated, it is impossible to address.

[Ashton_Horologist]

No, it can be fixed. Sometime the tip of the mainspring can be polished, you could also adjust the escapement so the pallet stones lock a little deeper on the escape wheel. Or a weaker strength mainspring. The problem will be able to be replicated at the watchmaker by doing the above test. 316 is on the high end.

[shofzr]

If it is over-banking it would not be running,. Over-banking is a failure of the escapement safety.

Re-banking is probably the cause.

Re-banking is a result of excessive amplitude.


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[Ashton_Horologist]

Re-banking, over banking and knocking are all the same thing. It’s excessive amplitude.

[shofzr]

Over banking is when the escapement safety fails allowing the pallet fork to bank to the wrong side.

Re-banking / knocking is excessive amplitude.


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[Ashton_Horologist]

I’ll concede this one, you are correct. I think the terms have been confused and end up being used interchangeably. Knocking is what I’m referring to.

[shofzr]

You are correct Sir, the terms do get incorrectly interchanged.

I believe you are also correct about re-bank/knocking/ galloping being the issue. It’s pretty unlikely an Air-King would be magnetized.


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[Ron P]

Back to your AD. There are 2 strenghts of mainsprings, so they should swap to the weaker one. Problem solved.

[Kap007]

So after talking to my watchmaker he said it is called overbanking. However, he said watch works fine. He is not going to mess with it. He said this is how a Rolex will work. Not perfectly accurate. The +2 -2 specs are under perfect conditions. Will not happen when actually worn. I have 14000 AK that is recently serviced that is at about +5 a day. My new AK stays like +30 like I said. Any thoughts? Thanx

[Fredrik]

That's not how a modern Rolex will and should work. Everyone I know with a modern day Rolex have watches within specs. My personal two are +1s/week or better. My fathers is basically spot on. I wear them while exercising and doing construction work too and they are still running perfectly.

[Ron P]

Go for specialized Rolex watchmaker. Rolex should easily run within the -2 / +2 seconds if properly serviced. Max amplitude is 300 degrees according to Rolex, this value gives headroom when the balance gets additional momentum due to movements of your arm when wearing the watch.

[George58]

put in a weaker main spring that's what rolex did to solve the same problem i had years ago with DS

[Ron P]

A weaker mainspring was the remedy for the 3135 range of movements. Not sure if they also have a weaker mainspring for 3235 range of movements.
Bas, maybe you can chime in here?

[Kap007]

Thanx for all of the replies. It's a 3131 movement. What I don't understand is how Rolex may have put the wrong mainspring in a newly made watch. I got watch new in Sept. Looking at warranty card a date of I think June/2021. Again, the watch shows a perfect +2 when put on time grapher. I would hate to have the movement tampered with possibly creating more problems. If I send to Rolex which I don't want to do, they would change out mainspring?

[GGGMT]

Originally Posted by Kap007

Thanx for all of the replies. It's a 3131 movement. What I don't understand is how Rolex may have put the wrong mainspring in a newly made watch. I got watch new in Sept. Looking at warranty card a date of I think June/2021. Again, the watch shows a perfect +2 when put on time grapher. I would hate to have the movement tampered with possibly creating more problems. If I send to Rolex which I don't want to do, they would change out mainspring?

Warranty issue. Why aren’t you going to rsc or ad?


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[Kap007]

I really don't want to send to RSC. Intially get the 4-6 week thing but it will probably turn into three or four months until I get it back. Just got off the phone. We all know the Rolex number in NY? 212 758 7700. They were very nice and explained everything. However, I was told not to mail until Jan. 3, 2022. They are closed for the holidays as of tomorrow.

[007Sub]

Originally Posted by Kap007

So after talking to my watchmaker he said it is called overbanking. However, he said watch works fine. He is not going to mess with it. He said this is how a Rolex will work. Not perfectly accurate. The +2 -2 specs are under perfect conditions. Will not happen when actually worn. I have 14000 AK that is recently serviced that is at about +5 a day. My new AK stays like +30 like I said. Any thoughts? Thanx

The prior comments were correct and your watchmaker is incorrect. it’s not overbanking it’s rebanking. It needs to be addressed otherwise much more damage will occur with continued use. A quick remedy is using a heavier weight oil for the balance jewels. Something like HP 1000 or 1300 should do the trick. Probably no need to change the mainspring. In the meantime don’t wear it 24/7 keep it off for a few hrs to let the mainspring power down a touch.


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[Kap007]

This was probably the most unhelpful group of responses. I'm not going to touch it. I got like four or five different things to do. Yeah right. I can live with it running fast. Watch is a work horse. I have a very hard time believing from an earlier post that his Rolex is +1 sec a week. Nonsense. There is absolutely no way unless a quartz movement.

[Ashton_Horologist]

I’m not sure what you are upset about? Anyway, your watch is not running correctly and it is re-banking. To say there is nothing that can be done is incorrect. You came here for advice, it was given, and now you don’t want to take it. That’s fine, you don’t have to. But your watch has a problem, irrespective of what the timing machine is displaying. It’s a very common problem that can be fixed. As has been mentioned, multiple times.

[Kap007]

Overbank? Rebank? Different weight lubricant. Different spring. Come on. I'm not upset. I hope this is the worst thing that happens to me. I find it hard to believe that Rolex would let the watch leave factory with the wrong lube etc. I have gotten some wonderful advice through this forum. Not this time. My CW-21 guy used the term fan boy. Haaa.

[Ashton_Horologist]

You clearly don’t understand mechanical machines. Your watch has too much amplitude. Simple. It is re-banking. It’s a common horological issue that can develop. Happens all the time. A solution is to use a weaker mainspring. Rolex produce them. It’s an official rolex part. Heavier lubrication is a solution as it will create drag and increase friction. It’s not the solution I, or rolex would go with. Another solution is to polish the tip of the mainspring and re-lubricate the barrel wall.

Also, I’m not a fan boy. I’m a WOSTEP and Rolex trained watchmaker so I have some idea of what I’m talking about.

Also, just because you don’t recognize good advice doesn’t mean you haven’t been given it. This thread is full of good advice that you repeatedly ignore and Burch off as quackery. You have chosen to listen to your watch repairer who has given you bad advice and not fixed the problem with the watch.

[Kap007]

Why would a new Rolex that has never been opened need work and parts changed and polished on the inside? I just don't get it. The watch works correctly.

[Ashton_Horologist]

I’m confused. The watch works perfectly or the watch is gaining time out of spec?

To address your question. If a watch is gaining time excessively even if a timing machine says it’s within spec the issue is usually re-banking if magnetism has been checked. Amplitude is affected by a number of factors. A new watch movement is put together, lubricated and adjusted. These parts are made in large quantities and quality control isn’t always what it should be. Often, the bridle of the mainspring can be too rough and it catches the barrel wall. Possibly the barrel wall could have too little lubrication.

All automatic watch movement have upper amplitude limits and if those limits are exceeded, the watch can gain considerable time because it is re-banking. When the automatic work winds the mainspring it is increasing the amplitude at the balance.

Why do you think warranties exist? If new Rolex’s, or any product for that matter, didn’t need issues addressing there would be no such thing as warranties.

[Kap007]

Thanx for the explanation. That seems to clear it up for me. As I said watch works great. It does gain more than the +2 a day but I can live with it. If I rest it, which was once, the watch stayed exactly where it was +0.