The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Rolex General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 4 February 2022, 08:49 AM   #1
Webb
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: York
Posts: 9
Submariner 14060M

I'm going to buy a 14060M submariner and would like to know if the 4 line version has a more accurate movement than the 2 line.

I have read conflicting information with some saying they are exactly the same and others saying that only the 4 line meets the Superlative Chronometer standard.

Can anyone give a definitive answer?

I prefer the cleaner look of the 2 line but accuracy really matters to me.
Webb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 08:51 AM   #2
rushca01
"TRF" Member
 
rushca01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Indiana
Watch: GMT BLRO
Posts: 1,754
They are exactly the same movements, one went through COSC certification and one did not. The movement in the 2 line could be regulated to the COSC standard.
rushca01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 February 2022, 04:46 AM   #3
Meyrin
"TRF" Member
 
Meyrin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Real Name: Ian
Location: Hamburg
Watch: Sub 14060
Posts: 1,163
Quote:
Originally Posted by rushca01 View Post
They are exactly the same movements, one went through COSC certification and one did not. The movement in the 2 line could be regulated to the COSC standard.
It certainly can, if regulated by an expert watch maker. My 1996 2-liner was regulated during a full service at my AD (Rolex certified watch makers) in summer 2019, and has been running consistently ca. 2 seconds per day fast since then. That's good enough for me! I check it against a radio-controlled clock about once a month...I´m not obsessed by accuracy-to-the seconds.
Meyrin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 08:54 AM   #4
RayRay89
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 237
My two liner is the most accurate watch in my collection
RayRay89 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 09:16 AM   #5
joeboy
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Scotland
Posts: 252
What a boring question. Literally pish....Has to be Borg generated?
joeboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 09:30 AM   #6
offrdmania
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
offrdmania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Real Name: Matt
Location: Wine Country, Ca
Posts: 5,998
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeboy View Post
What a boring question. Literally pish....Has to be Borg generated?
What an amazing contribution you have made to this thread.
__________________
TRF Member 11738
offrdmania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 10:53 AM   #7
HankScorpio
"TRF" Member
 
HankScorpio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Denver
Posts: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeboy View Post
What a boring question. Literally pish....Has to be Borg generated?
Agreed! OP didn’t even ask which is the better investment. Shouldn’t the mods filter out these watch enjoyment questions before we even have to see them?
HankScorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 07:44 PM   #8
Daveh777
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Australia
Posts: 221
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeboy View Post
What a boring question. Literally pish....Has to be Borg generated?
For what it’s worth, this is probably the most disrespectful watch forum that I belong to.

Confucius is alleged to have said:
The man who asks a question is a fool for a minute, the man who does not ask is a fool for life.
Daveh777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 09:47 AM   #9
Driver8
"TRF" Member
 
Driver8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,874
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeboy View Post
What a boring question. Literally pish....Has to be Borg generated?
Personally I'd rather see threads like this, than the endless whinging about availability, or "investments", or "latest price checks".
Driver8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 10:35 AM   #10
csaltphoto
"TRF" Member
 
csaltphoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: US
Watch: sub
Posts: 2,429
No idea if it is more accurate but it is different. The "M" stands for "Modified". Different caliber designation too; 3000 vs 3130. Think the "M" has a full balance bridge, maybe a few other enhancements.

Never mind, I miss-read the question. Yes the 2 and 4 line M models have the same movement.

Last edited by csaltphoto; 4 February 2022 at 10:45 AM.. Reason: Correction
csaltphoto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 10:41 AM   #11
tifosi
"TRF" Member
 
tifosi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Real Name: Russ
Location: Southern NJ
Posts: 5,760
The 2 line and 4 line 14060M is exactly the same. As previously stated a 14060 has a different movement.
__________________
Russ
tifosi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 12:37 PM   #12
hutch300
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Real Name: Jeff
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,482
Both are great watches and classics. I will say if accuracy is your jam you might not want an automatic watch. What are you after? Perhaps some more context and we could be more helpful.
hutch300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 01:18 PM   #13
PepsiBezel
2024 ROLEX SUBMARINER 41 Pledge Member
 
PepsiBezel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: USA
Watch: Neo-Vintage
Posts: 1,212
Welcome!

As another poster mentioned, you may find more of a difference in potential accuracy/precision between the 14060 and the 14060M models as the movements are different.

Amongst the 4-liner 14060M models, the latest serials of them have a parachrom bleu hairspring, which may have potentially better accuracy and more anti-magnetic.
PepsiBezel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 01:20 PM   #14
mquarter
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Asia
Watch: 5-digit steel
Posts: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webb View Post
I'm going to buy a 14060M submariner
Excellent choice OP
mquarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 02:23 PM   #15
TunaTuna
2024 Pledge Member
 
TunaTuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2021
Location: Merica
Posts: 1,331
The two line is way cooler, thats what matters most. Either is accurate enough.
TunaTuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 02:28 PM   #16
sski
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: FL
Watch: ♛ & ✠
Posts: 943
i'd get the more elegant 2 lined dial version; as others have mentioned- movement can always be regulated by a watchmaker.
sski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 06:26 PM   #17
mquarter
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Asia
Watch: 5-digit steel
Posts: 384
Quote:
Originally Posted by sski View Post
i'd get the more elegant 2 lined dial version

It’s because the symmetry of the two liner is unmatched. And there will never be another 2 liner sub in the future.
__________________
♛ Submariner 14060m, 2-line
♛ Explorer II 16570, polar
♛ Cosmograph Daytona 16520, white dial
mquarter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 02:56 PM   #18
GradyPhilpott
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
GradyPhilpott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New Mexico
Watch: Seiko #SRK050
Posts: 34,460
Precision is the word we should use in this context.

A watch's accuracy is determined in relation to an official time, such as NIST or observatory time.

If I have a watch that is precise to one second in 25 billion years, it will be inaccurate, if in my haste I set it five minutes slow or fast.

I love my 14060M. Fewer lines of text are not necessarily more elegant.

In this case, they are equally elegant.

__________________
JJ

Inaugural TRF $50 Watch Challenge Winner
GradyPhilpott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 04:23 PM   #19
Dazthebeard
"TRF" Member
 
Dazthebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2021
Location: Manchester UK
Posts: 128

Great watch. Can’t recommend enough


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Dazthebeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 06:43 PM   #20
3wheeler7
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 60
4 liners appear to be attracting higher asking prices at the moment, probably being seen as a future collectable due to their short production run. Last of the best.
3wheeler7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 06:52 PM   #21
padi56
"TRF" Life Patron
 
padi56's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 53,060
Quote:
Originally Posted by Webb View Post
I'm going to buy a 14060M submariner and would like to know if the 4 line version has a more accurate movement than the 2 line.

I have read conflicting information with some saying they are exactly the same and others saying that only the 4 line meets the Superlative Chronometer standard.

Can anyone give a definitive answer?

I prefer the cleaner look of the 2 line but accuracy really matters to me.
Its exactly the same movement today the COSC test is mostly purely marketing and nothing more, and its quite costly to test the bare uncased movements at COSC. Rolex has there own machine at COSC because of the many hundreds of thousands of movements they test each year. Take the Rolex Explorer they were COSC tested but watches like the 14060 and many 14060M were not tested, but exactly the same movement.Same many years ago with the old Daytona like the 6263 SS, but the gold version of the same watch was tested but SS was not.All the Rolex movements made over the past 50 odd years when regulated correctly, that matches the owners wearing habits, can run a AVERAGE -4+6 seconds a day or better so can many other brands.And will add even when regulated on a timing machine to say +2 seconds a day, this dont mean on the wrist it will perform exactly the same each day, and please remember there are 86400 seconds in day.No purely mechanical watch any brand and at any price, will keep 100% perfect time close yes but perfect no.
__________________

ICom Pro3

All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only.

"The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever."
Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again.

www.mc0yad.club

Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder
padi56 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 07:05 PM   #22
SS Oyster
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
SS Oyster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 9,218
I prefer the 4-liner as it reminds me of the 5512 vs the 5513. I know those two had different movements, but makes me think the 4-liner is superior.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
SS Oyster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 07:22 PM   #23
3wheeler7
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Nottingham UK
Posts: 60
4 liner is more symmetrical.
Attached Images
 
3wheeler7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 08:29 PM   #24
Andad
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
Andad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Real Name: Eddie
Location: Australia
Watch: A few.
Posts: 37,521
My 2001 14060M is the most accurate watch I have.

Runs fast about 2 seconds/week.

I can correct that by leaving it 6 up overnight.

Last serviced about 3 years ago.
__________________
E

Andad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 09:46 PM   #25
Dilemma
"TRF" Member
 
Dilemma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,170
If accuracy is your primary concern you can do better than a mechanical watch but I suspect you know this.

Now. You want the two-liner. Repeat after me; “I want the two-liner I want the two-liner.” These damn fancy Subs in blue, green, gold are posers. Posers I say! And do NOT get me started on that weird goiter thing some have. Cut it off! Just cut it off!
Dilemma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 February 2022, 11:03 PM   #26
Webb
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2022
Location: York
Posts: 9
Thank you all very much.
Webb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 February 2022, 12:24 AM   #27
saxo3
"TRF" Member
 
saxo3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: .
Posts: 2,918
Submariner 14060M

Quote:
Originally Posted by GradyPhilpott View Post
Precision is the word we should use in this context.
Yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Webb View Post
I'm going to buy a 14060M submariner and would like to know if the 4 line version has a more accurate movement than the 2 line.

I have read conflicting information with some saying they are exactly the same and others saying that only the 4 line meets the Superlative Chronometer standard.

Can anyone give a definitive answer?

I prefer the cleaner look of the 2 line but accuracy really matters to me.
Welcome OP.

I own a 14060M (K-serial) with the 3130 movement.
Its caliber is very accurate AND very precise.

I measured Amplitudes, Rates, and Precision of 32xx and 31xx calibers.

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...postcount=1232

The 3130 data points were taken for my 14060M.





Even towards the end of the power reserve and at low amplitude (150 degrees) the 3130 remained very precise (0.5 s/d).
saxo3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 5 February 2022, 01:29 AM   #28
Ketler
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 467
My Y series 2 liner gains less than 1 second per day...
Ketler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 February 2022, 03:10 AM   #29
WBaileyii
"TRF" Member
 
WBaileyii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2021
Real Name: Will
Location: PacNW, USA
Watch: 16610/126610LV
Posts: 360
As so many have already said. The 2 liner and 4 liner 14060M's both have the same movement. The 4 liners were sent to COSC for certification and the two liners were not.
For me I just like the symmetry of the two liner more...

Name:  14060M 12_14_2021_1.jpeg
Views: 271
Size:  57.6 KB
WBaileyii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 February 2022, 05:32 AM   #30
Tools
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
 
Tools's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 43,514
Quote:
Originally Posted by WBaileyii View Post
As so many have already said. The 2 liner and 4 liner 14060M's both have the same movement. The 4 liners were sent to COSC for certification and the two liners were not.
For me I just like the symmetry of the two liner more...
This has always been an interesting debate.

My school of thought is that Rolex routinely sends all of their movements in for COSC testing and never set aside others, that are made at the same time, only to go into Subs.

It should also be noted that a movement is only COSC tested once, then nobody ever tests it again, regardless of how it operates.

I have thought that it was a choice by Rolex to keep the Sub as near to the original look as possible, hence, a minimalist dial. Possibly it was more perception that people want a "chronometer", or they were setting the table for the ensuing ceramic COSC model.

Mine don't run any differently than a COSC version.

Name:  SSSub2 copy.jpg
Views: 230
Size:  56.8 KB
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....)
NAWCC Member
Tools is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

WatchesOff5th

DavidSW Watches

Takuya Watches

OCWatches

Asset Appeal

Wrist Aficionado

My Watch LLC


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.