True importance of box and papers (worth paying +15% for)?

[Hazzyf]

Hi guys - about to to pull the trigger on a Rolex Sea-Dweller. Large grey dealer offered me two options (both same year, similar condition) but one without box and papers costs c.15% less.

B+P doesn’t bother me too much personally (given it’s from a reputable dealer), but this may be a watch I’ll change in next couple years. Which is the better value purchase here?

Thanks!

[HogwldFLTR]

If you're going to keep it for an extended period than I don't think it's worth the 15%. Boxes can be found fairly cheaply if you ever decide you want one. When it's time to get it serviced, a current service card will work as well as original papers, imho.

[faimag]

Probably people will tell you that if it's going to be your only watch and you plan to wear it day-in day-out, no need to get B&P... But most of us started like this, thinking "let's get 1" and then we wanted a 2nd, a 3rd, a 4th and so on, and suddenly it became nice to have full sets in our collection. For me, 15% for the original papers (box is not so important as these are not watch-specific) is reasonable and I would probably go for it. You will definitely get it back when (if) you sell it. The service card is not at all the same as (besides the value of an overhauled watch itself) it only serves to "authenticate" the watch but then again, this can be done even without the card and for much cheaper than the cost of an RSC service. A full set will always have a wider client base.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

If you're going to keep it for an extended period than I don't think it's worth the 15%. Boxes can be found fairly cheaply if you ever decide you want one. When it's time to get it serviced, a current service card will work as well as original papers, imho.

Have to agree would never pay extra for what is in most case a outdated warranty bit of paper, which today is much easier to fake than the watch.And in the real world the Rolex box is not the best watch box, quite cheaply mass made by several companies world wide for Rolex.

[joli160]

Like many others I would never buy without papers.
If ever you want/ need to sell you regret if you don’t have them.

The original card is unique and from a collectors point of view much more interesting compared to a service card.

[brandrea]

A full kit is always better to have IMO

[alphadweller]

To me B&P are important. I would be prepared to pay 15% more for provenance and traceability.

[JayHantz]

I would say, for me, box and papers are important and depending on the watch I was going for, would want to pay more for having them.

[1William]

I would go with the box and paper option. A complete watch, as offered, is always more appealing to me than one that is not complete. I have owned and do own watches that are not complete but the option of a complete watch was not available from the dealer when I bought them. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

[Marcjvr]

Buy without. When you send it for a service you will get papers. Box is just a box

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by padi56

Have to agree would never pay extra for what is in most case a outdated warranty bit of paper, which today is much easier to fake than the watch.And in the real world the Rolex box is not the best watch box, quite cheaply mass made by several companies world wide for Rolex.

Right, it's easy to find counterfeit Rolex papers on line; just supply the serial number. They literally mean far less than most assign the value to.

[time_and_cars]

For me Box and papers are part of the watch …. All my watches have BP and they watches that bought from grey are always BP

[Turbo Racer]

B&P are always better to have than not if possible. With modern watches for me, it’s a must. For vintage, it’s a different story

[1665fan]

15-20% easily for full set over naked

[Onequik135i]

On a watch from 2000 & on I say B&P.

[Kevin of Larchmont]

Originally Posted by brandrea

A full kit is always better to have IMO

Indeed a full set is always better to have but for me the price differential (15%?) is more important. I buy watches to use and wear and don’t plan on selling them. If I do end up selling them then their sale price reflects the lack of box and papers just as the purchase price did. I don’t seek out orphan watches, I have plenty of B&P, but I don’t avoid them. I collect watches not full sets.

[Calatrava r]

In today's world you will take a huge hit if you sell without B&P. This was not true even a few years bad. Heck, most older pieces do not have this stuff as it was tossed or lost. The internet has changed thinking and people want complete.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by joli160

Like many others I would never buy without papers.
If ever you want/ need to sell you regret if you don’t have them.

The original card is unique and from a collectors point of view much more interesting compared to a service card.

Originally Posted by brandrea

A full kit is always better to have IMO

Originally Posted by alphadweller

To me B&P are important. I would be prepared to pay 15% more for provenance and traceability.

Originally Posted by JayHantz

I would say, for me, box and papers are important and depending on the watch I was going for, would want to pay more for having them.

Originally Posted by 1William

I would go with the box and paper option. A complete watch, as offered, is always more appealing to me than one that is not complete. I have owned and do own watches that are not complete but the option of a complete watch was not available from the dealer when I bought them. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

Originally Posted by time_and_cars

For me Box and papers are part of the watch …. All my watches have BP and they watches that bought from grey are always BP

I agree with you guys.

[s14roller]

I’d never buy without box/papers unless:

1) I knew the history (eg my friend selling his watch and told me why box/papers were gone vs. grey dealer saying oh, they were tossed out or misplaced)

2) the significant price delta made it a no brainer. As you say you will sell, best to buy a full set

[Stellite]

IF you plan on keeping the watch for life or a very long time as a daily wear, then save the money. But if there is any chance you may flip it for something else, B&P is the way to go and worth the extra money.

People saying you can get fake papers, might as well say you can get fake watches as you are supporting a counterfeiter in both cases.

[Mystro]

Full box set is important to me for a modern Rolex. Resale value it’s a huge deal but I want a complete set because I like looking through all the pieces that come with a new watch. I can nerd out just looking through my watches complete sets just for fun.

[OrangeSport]

Even if they add value, prices are likely to drop. So, whatever % value they add will become less £ss

I wouldn’t bother

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Hazzyf

Hi guys - about to to pull the trigger on a Rolex Sea-Dweller. Large grey dealer offered me two options (both same year, similar condition) but one without box and papers costs c.15% less.

B+P doesn’t bother me too much personally (given it’s from a reputable dealer), but this may be a watch I’ll change in next couple years. Which is the better value purchase here?

Thanks!

As you will read, some insist on these things. The majority of used watches simply do not come with them (the Grey Market is not used), yet every watch for sale gets purchased by somebody.

It is entirely up to you what you want. Personally, I don't wear a box and have much space taken up by these somewhat worthless accessories. I do have watches both with and without - the watch condition is paramount.

If the watch is a rare collectible, museum quality piece, complete sets are worth much more than others. If it's a common watch that will be used, these things are simply a way to get more money from buyers.

A couple of hundred is sensible, 15% is highway robbery.

[BillA]

If you know for sure that the watch is 100% authentic and don’t plan on selling it, then without papers is OK with me. I am happy to save the 15%. I could spend the 15% on other things, save it, etc. You do not wear the box and papers, as far as I know, only the watch. Some people will say you will take a big hit if you sell without box and papers, that may be true to people on this forum, but people on this forum do not make up all of the watch community buying and selling watches. My view may not be popular but o well.

[Moka-Tiger]

Box and papers, and papers more than box if box isn't available. Especially for Rolex watches I would never get any Rolex without papers.

It sounds like an exaggeration, but when I have gone to sell watches because I was upgrading my collection, the dealers asked to see the guarantee card before they even looked at the watch.

When selling without papers, you have to do a song and dance to prove where you bought it, and hopefully the original seller is reputable and well known. Without, you will get lowballed. To me it's such a good feeling to hand over the guarantee card and start the dealing from there.

[Gab27]

Could you elaborate on the specific model SD this is and what year it was manufactured?

[Guybrush]

Couldn’t possibly care less about box and papers—as others have said, they’re both easy to obtain after the fact and easily faked. I’d never buy them after the fact, but the point is: they don’t add any authenticating support to a watch at all. Far better to pay that premium to RSC in the form of a service. Then you get total peace of mind and a fresh 2 year guarantee.

But I suppose b&p matter because they matter to other people—it’s a little tautological. On the the other hand, if you buy lower because you obtain without them, and then you sell lower because you don’t have them, it’s no different than paying more to get them and selling more with them, right?

I suppose the argument is that a stolen watch is less likely to have b&p, therefore watch without b&p is more likely to be stolen? But that’s pretty stretchy logic. Most people (non watch obsessed) would probably chuck both immediately upon purchase.

[RFC]

Originally Posted by HogwldFLTR

If you're going to keep it for an extended period than I don't think it's worth the 15%. Boxes can be found fairly cheaply if you ever decide you want one. When it's time to get it serviced, a current service card will work as well as original papers, imho.

Exactly right. Worth repeatiing that it’s all about condition, condition. Buy low w/o box and papers from a reputable seller. Have it serviced by an independent CW21 watchmaker like Phiilip Ridley or RSC in Dallas if you must. You would have bought yourself by then a good honest condition watch with a fresh service and service papers at a total price a grand or two less than an unserviced full set watch. If what your budget allows is an unpolished or NOS full set be prepared for a long wait to find one and to pay thousands more. As for me I buy watches to wear them.

[Solo118]

If it is out of warranty, and verified I think you are better off saving the 15%

[2loaded]

Originally Posted by Solo118

If it is out of warranty, and verified I think you are better off saving the 15%

Spot On.