Why do we seem to think watches sold through the CPO programme won't be serviced?

[Devildog]

There's a lot of people claiming that watches sold through the CPO programme won't be serviced, but can anyone point me in the direction of the definitive truth on this?

(as opposed to some Youtube "expert" making speculative statements as "truth")

The only way that Rolex can property guarantee authenticity is to open each watch up. Can you imagine the PR disaster if a CPO watch was found to contain aftermarket parts?

The 2 year warranty is exactly what you get from an RSC serviced watch. There's an argument that a watch that is only 3 years old (the youngest in the CPO programme) still has 2 years warranty remaining which I get.

Buy has anyone actually looked at the CPO watches for sale? They are all immaculately refurbished. Not a scuff or a scratch. Of course they are, most CPO buyers want a shiny unmarked watch for the premium they are paying.

So are we suggesting that Rolex will sell you a guaranteed authentic watch that's had a full case and bracelet refinish without a movement service of some description?

Because none of these CPO watches are just being taken in, checked and put out for resale. They've all had some serious work done.

[drrd]

Same as any other (used) purchase, judge each on its own merits.

I’d be wary about making statements about ‘none’ and ‘all’ of these CPO pieces because you can’t be that sure.

[Devildog]

Originally Posted by drrd

Same as any other (used) purchase, judge each on its own merits.

I’d be wary about making statements about ‘none’ and ‘all’ of these CPO pieces because you can’t be that sure.

I was referring to the ones currently being sold

[rambo99]

I reckon all second hand watches buy back from the general public public for the CPO program will be serviced, except those from exhibition pieces.

[VonSomething]

Originally Posted by Devildog

There's a lot of people claiming that watches sold through the CPO programme won't be serviced, but can anyone point me in the direction of the definitive truth on this?

(as opposed to some Youtube "expert" making speculative statements as "truth")

The only way that Rolex can property guarantee authenticity is to open each watch up. Can you imagine the PR disaster if a CPO watch was found to contain aftermarket parts?

The 2 year warranty is exactly what you get from an RSC serviced watch. There's an argument that a watch that is only 3 years old (the youngest in the CPO programme) still has 2 years warranty remaining which I get.

Buy has anyone actually looked at the CPO watches for sale? They are all immaculately refurbished. Not a scuff or a scratch. Of course they are, most CPO buyers want a shiny unmarked watch for the premium they are paying.

So are we suggesting that Rolex will sell you a guaranteed authentic watch that's had a full case and bracelet refinish without a movement service of some description?

Because none of these CPO watches are just being taken in, checked and put out for resale. They've all had some serious work done.

It entirely depends on Rolexes guidelines for the CPO program.

Prior to Rolex CPO, I'm quite sure what Bucherer would do, would be an authentication check, perhaps a light polish depending on condition, as well as timing the watch to make sure it runs well enough to make it past their 2 years warranty. I don't believe they would give all their watches a "full service", specially not if it wasn't needed.

From a business perspective: If a watch runs fine and is pressure-tested, no need to increase your cost by performing a full service. Give a 2 year warranty and if a service is needed within that time they can deal with it then. Since it's a Rolex there's a very low probability of the watch malfunctioning within 2 years if it's running according to spec.

[Old Expat Beast]

If some CPO watches don't come with original papers, it would be a nice (value-added) touch if they had Omega-type 'extracts from the archives' certificates noting where and when they were originally sold. Rolex could come up with that info easy enough.

[dannyp]

I'm sure they'll be checked for accuracy, water resistance, and authenticity. Most likely at the AD watchmaker level (part of becoming "certified" to sell "certified"). Service if needed, but otherwise polish and gasket replacement.

Authenticity should also be easier to verify since it will ostensibly be done through Rolex, even if Rolex corporate never gets the physical watch (whereas Rolex won't currently confirm that a watch/serial/original AD match its records).

[dannyp]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

If some CPO watches don't come with original papers, it would be a nice (value-added) touch if they had Omega-type 'extracts from the archives' certificates noting where and when they were originally sold. Rolex could come up with that info easy enough.

Doubt any original paperwork, as the "official" paperwork will be the CPO card. That would also go against the idea of making the watch look/feel as "new" as possible, which is what CPO seems to be all about.

Now, if Rolex started an offshoot "certified vintage" program, or the like, for watches at least 25 years old, I could see all of this being part of the package.

[rambo99]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

It entirely depends on Rolexes guidelines for the CPO program.

Prior to Rolex CPO, I'm quite sure what Bucherer would do, would be an authentication check, perhaps a light polish depending on condition, as well as timing the watch to make sure it runs well enough to make it past their 2 years warranty. I don't believe they would give all their watches a "full service", specially not if it wasn't needed.

From a business perspective: If a watch runs fine and is pressure-tested, no need to increase your cost by performing a full service. Give a 2 year warranty and if a service is needed within that time they can deal with it then. Since it's a Rolex there's a very low probability of the watch malfunctioning within 2 years if it's running according to spec.

did bucherer check if the watch was stolen prior to CPO?

[brandrea]

It’s a good question Scott.

On one hand if the watch is still under original factory warranty, why would it need a service? On the other, if they have to open up the watch anyway to authenticate, why not? “Service” may mean a simple timeograph check and if all is good they close it back up …

Maybe it’ll be left to the AD to decide which is somewhat scary

[RyanJ]

I think the reasoning is because I don't think that Rolex is going to touch every single one of the watches that are on sale.

I think the AD will make the determination on if the watch needs service or if it is in good enough condition to sell as is.

Random Questions:

How would the AD/Rolex handle a watch being sold that is only 3 years old? It still has 3 years of factory warranty left. Why give it a CPO warranty card when it still has 2 years of factory warranty left? If I send a watch in for service at 3 years, does Rolex send me a 2 year guarantee card or send me nothing because the watch still has 2 years factory warranty left?

[VonSomething]

Originally Posted by rambo99

did bucherer check if the watch was stolen prior to CPO?

It's difficult to near impossible to check if a watch is stolen without a central registry, which doesn't exist.

However when you sell a pre-owned watch to Bucherer you are required to supply a lot of paperwork and they will make a copy of your personal identification etc.

They would be the worst place to try and sell a stolen watch to, unless of course you bought it from a third party without knowing it was stolen.

[amh]

"Don't fix it if it ain't broke"

There's no reason to service a watch that's fairly new. Do you perform a transmission rebuild on a vehicle with 30k miles?

[askdanny]

Originally Posted by Devildog

There's a lot of people claiming that watches sold through the CPO programme won't be serviced, but can anyone point me in the direction of the definitive truth on this?

I’m no “YouTube expert” but my article in Rolexmagazine.com was fact-checked by Rolex SA in Geneva.

https://www.rolexmagazine.com/2022/1...m-details.html

[watchwatcher]

Great question, Scott. Short answer, no, I don't think there is a definitive truth to what you seek, but I'll happily stand corrected if wrong.

From appearances, though, it looks like Rolex is going to be their usual meticulous, excruciatingly thorough selves in putting their stamp of approval on these watches (along with a price reflective of that lol), so it stands to reason they have a plan to address this issue.

For me, the whole CPO picture hasn't quite come into focus yet. I mean, so many unanswered questions...

[enjoythemusic]

We do know you will get a new CPO Rolex warranty card for the timepiece plus a two-year factory warranty.

[rmagoo57]

Originally Posted by askdanny

I’m no “YouTube expert” but my article in Rolexmagazine.com was fact-checked by Rolex SA in Geneva.

https://www.rolexmagazine.com/2022/1...m-details.html

Excellent article/summary, thanks Danny! Do you think the CPO program will be the AD's clearing house for the current inventory of Exhibition Only watches? Or will they be sold as New?

[DJ2020]

I believe either the AD or Rolex will at least check timing, authenticity and pressure test. At least they should on all watches no matter how old they are. (32XX issue) And you have no idea how the used watch was treated. (dropped, shock, magnetized etc.) A pre-sale inspection if you will.

I'm sure they will clean up any watch considered for sale as needed. selling a beat up/scratched watch would be a feat.

If not at least the above, I would not consider buying one at all. The pricing for CPO in the USA at a AD is what I can't wait to see. Especially as secondary market prices keep falling.

[subtona]

Originally Posted by Devildog

There's a lot of people claiming that watches sold through the CPO programme won't be serviced, but can anyone point me in the direction of the definitive truth on this?

(as opposed to some Youtube "expert" making speculative statements as "truth")

The only way that Rolex can property guarantee authenticity is to open each watch up. Can you imagine the PR disaster if a CPO watch was found to contain aftermarket parts?

The 2 year warranty is exactly what you get from an RSC serviced watch. There's an argument that a watch that is only 3 years old (the youngest in the CPO programme) still has 2 years warranty remaining which I get.

Buy has anyone actually looked at the CPO watches for sale? They are all immaculately refurbished. Not a scuff or a scratch. Of course they are, most CPO buyers want a shiny unmarked watch for the premium they are paying.

So are we suggesting that Rolex will sell you a guaranteed authentic watch that's had a full case and bracelet refinish without a movement service of some description?

Because none of these CPO watches are just being taken in, checked and put out for resale. They've all had some serious work done.

You make good points, if the case is going to be refinished the movement must come out.

My confidence in Rolex service after many instances of incompetence and disregard has long since been eroded.

I have had false claims of service (claimed to replace crown and tube …in fact did not…they replaced it “again” when I pointed out the watch still had my original crown in it) from RSCNY and service that required 3 trips to meet the most basic level. (Not leaving thumbprints under the crystal & attaching the hands to the watch securely before it is returned to the customer… this resulted in a scratched and replaced dial). Not to mention the chewed up screw heads from allowing RSC to resize my bracelet (I since do my own resizing and my friends)

My point is I would prefer rsc keep their ham-fists away from the movement unless it is absolutely necessary. They do not care.

[Driver8]

Personally I see it working like an "Approved Used Car" warranty. In other words if something major and visible needs addressing it will be done before the watch is put up for sale. Otherwise I thoroughly believe that not much will be done at all, with any issues down the line being covered by the (hopefully) cast iron Rolex warranty.

I've bought a lot of BMWs over the years - some new, some used - and all of the used ones have being through BMW's Approved Used Car programme. This means they all (apparently!) have to pass "stringent 360º inspection checks performed by qualified BMW Technicians" comprising of 120 separate checks, followed by "a comprehensive road test that ensures the driving experience meets BMW exacting standards." I can absolutely assure you that on at least two of my used cars, none (or very very little) of that actually happened. I've been delivered cars that have had mismatched tyres (and a combination of run-flat and non-run-flats!), a blown amplifier, I've had non-working interior lights, I've had a broken heating matrix, service items that were overdue and not done, etc, etc. And that was on cars being sold as part of the "Approved Used Car" programme.

In my experience, the dealerships simply churn the cars out because it's cheaper and easier to let the customer find any issues and then get it fixed under warranty, rather than have the hassle of doing all the checks up front.

Now, obviously BMW isn't Rolex, and Rolex isn't BMW, but I'd still be very VERY surprised if we find ADs shipping every watch they receive offsite to RSC for checking (unless of course the visible condition and/or timekeeping is so bad that it warrants it).

I'm more than happy to be proven wrong on this, and I genuinely hope that AD's DO have to send everything to RSC for verification: it's just the cynic in me that can't see it happening.

[VonSomething]

Originally Posted by Driver8

Personally I see it working like an "Approved Used Car" warranty. In other words if something major and visible needs addressing it will be done before the watch is put up for sale. Otherwise I thoroughly believe that not much will be done at all, with any issues down the line being covered by the (hopefully) cast iron Rolex warranty.

I've bought a lot of BMWs over the years - some new, some used - and all of the used ones have being through BMW's Approved Used Car programme. This means they all (apparently!) have to pass "stringent 360º inspection checks performed by qualified BMW Technicians" comprising of 120 separate checks, followed by "a comprehensive road test that ensures the driving experience meets BMW exacting standards." I can absolutely assure you that on at least two of my used cars, none (or very very little) of that actually happened. I've been delivered cars that have had mismatched tyres (and a combination of run-flat and non-run-flats!), a blown amplifier, I've had non-working interior lights, I've had a broken heating matrix, service items that were overdue and not done, etc, etc. And that was on cars being sold as part of the "Approved Used Car" programme.

In my experience, the dealerships simply churn the cars out because it's cheaper and easier to let the customer find any issues and then get it fixed under warranty, rather than have the hassle of doing all the checks up front.

Now, obviously BMW isn't Rolex, and Rolex isn't BMW, but I'd still be very VERY surprised if we find ADs shipping every watch they receive offsite to RSC for checking (unless of course the visible condition and/or timekeeping is so bad that it warrants it).

I'm more than happy to be proven wrong on this, and I genuinely hope that AD's DO have to send everything to RSC for verification: it's just the cynic in me that can't see it happening.

They don't send anything to Rolex. Rolex has nothing to do with the pre-owned watches. Everything is handled by their in-house watchmakers under the concept "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

[askdanny]

Originally Posted by rmagoo57

Excellent article/summary, thanks Danny! Do you think the CPO program will be the AD's clearing house for the current inventory of Exhibition Only watches? Or will they be sold as New?

That is up to the AD. And contrary to some YouTubers’ beliefs, there is no directive from above or no conspiracy from Geneva. I know of at least one Rolex AD manager here in the US who said he was planning on using the FEOs for his CPO, as he was concerned about the lack of inventory he would be able to acquire on the CPO side. (He has 20 FEOs and felt that was not enough.)

[VonSomething]

Originally Posted by askdanny

That is up to the AD. And contrary to some YouTubers’ beliefs, there is no directive from above or no conspiracy from Geneva. I know of at least one Rolex AD manager here in the US who said he was planning on using the FEOs for his CPO, as he was concerned about the lack of inventory he would be able to acquire on the CPO side. (He has 20 FEOs and feels that was not enough.)

Rolex FEO's are just customers watches that are waiting to get released for pick up.

I've had my watch sit ½ year as FEO in the displays, until the AD received another similar piece to replace it with, before I could pick it up.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by VonSomething

They don't send anything to Rolex. Rolex has nothing to do with the pre-owned watches. Everything is handled by their in-house watchmakers under the concept "if it ain't broke, don't fix it".

That's my point - "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". Or perhaps it's more like, "if it doesn't appear to be broke, don't even check it". The customer will find the problems and the warranty will fix it (all at the customer's time expenditure of course).

[HogwldFLTR]

Originally Posted by Devildog

There's a lot of people claiming that watches sold through the CPO programme won't be serviced, but can anyone point me in the direction of the definitive truth on this?

(as opposed to some Youtube "expert" making speculative statements as "truth")

The only way that Rolex can property guarantee authenticity is to open each watch up. Can you imagine the PR disaster if a CPO watch was found to contain aftermarket parts?

The 2 year warranty is exactly what you get from an RSC serviced watch. There's an argument that a watch that is only 3 years old (the youngest in the CPO programme) still has 2 years warranty remaining which I get.

Buy has anyone actually looked at the CPO watches for sale? They are all immaculately refurbished. Not a scuff or a scratch. Of course they are, most CPO buyers want a shiny unmarked watch for the premium they are paying.

So are we suggesting that Rolex will sell you a guaranteed authentic watch that's had a full case and bracelet refinish without a movement service of some description?

Because none of these CPO watches are just being taken in, checked and put out for resale. They've all had some serious work done.

Really curious as to who the "We" is that believes they won't be serviced. Basically, Rolex will do as it wills.

[Chewbacca]

I believe the timing and age of watch intake isn’t coincidental as the extended service schedule came in about 3 years ago. If it’s under the 10 year scheduled then why would they service it? A simple caseback opening to prove authenticity and link count is a simple $50 job for them and that’s all that’s needed. If it’s older than 10 years then maybe.

[drrd]

Originally Posted by Devildog

I was referring to the ones currently being sold

So was I.

How can you know that ‘none of these CPO watches are just being taken in, checked and put out for resale. They've all had some serious work done.’?

[jamesbondOO7]

Simply because they do not state anywhere that the watch will be/has been serviced, nor that any checklist will be gone through. For me 2-year warranty does not give me any joy, but to know that the watch has just been serviced means I don’t have to worry for about 10 or 15 years!

Now also take into account the service time nowadays which is a minimum of 2 months. If one add the zillions of watches under CPO to be serviced, what is going to happen to the average service time?

Simple.

The only guarantee one will be given is that the watch is genuine at the time of purchase (why add “at the time of purchase”?). So, a pretty weak programme for anyone but the rookiest buyer.

[inadeje]

Originally Posted by Devildog

There's a lot of people claiming that watches sold through the CPO programme won't be serviced, but can anyone point me in the direction of the definitive truth on this?

(as opposed to some Youtube "expert" making speculative statements as "truth")
.

These youtube fools will say anything so long as they have the click bait term “Rolex” in their title. I won’t be commenting on statements by those whose existence is based upon perpetuating false narratives.

[RyanJ]

Some ADs have great in house watchmakers and some good people externally who can do an amazing job making a watch look like new.

The RSC is not the only place that can polish a Rolex.

I still highly doubt that Rolex SA will be touching every single CPO watch. The ADs will be doing most of the heavy lifting I got to think.