1655 Bezel on Ebay

[pablofields]

http://cgi.ebay.com/rolex-vintage-16...d=p3286.c0.m14

My level of concern increased significantly after suspicious bidding took it from under hundred dollar range to (allegedly) over 1K! No photos of the bottom or inner ring, which I unfortunately learned from personal experience can show counterfeit status (my fakee also came from Italy; fortunately Paypal got my $$$ back).

Seller has no history of selling this type of special item and the "story" of how it was acquired is suspicious.

Request for expert opinion also being sought on VRF.

Opinions?

[idk01]

Seller also has a daytona bezel and vintage daytona movement.....

Might need our resident vintage experts to have a look at these.

[onkyo]

Looks like a factory replacement bezel IMO.....

Anyone else?

[idk01]

Originally Posted by onkyo

Looks like a factory replacement bezel IMO.....

Anyone else?

They looks just a little too new to me, not cleaned and polished as you would expect something vintage, not a scuff or scratch. I'm with you Pav!

[Lol-x]

I think this is an original bezel as it has the numbers centered on the bezel horizontally and the separators are full length.

The factory replacement bezels only have short number separators that do not travel the full height of the bezel.

Anyway, some dummies have bid this item into the stratosphere

[idk01]

Over $1k USD WOW!

[Lol-x]

It's pretty difficult to say:

Auction:





QualityTyme, genuine bezel:



The only real difference I can see is the length of the lower section of the number 4, but apart from that it looks basically identical to the real McCoy.

[pablofields]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I think this is an original bezel as it has the numbers centered on the bezel horizontally and the separators are full length.

The factory replacement bezels only have short number separators that do not travel the full height of the bezel.

Anyway, some dummies have bid this item into the stratosphere

Looks too new to be an original MK I or II thick font; bears most resemblance to Mark III in terms of font size and long line separators but more like IV with its newly brushed finish.... Sorry unable to post picture from the auction for ease of comparison.

[Lol-x]

Here's a FAKE bezel for comparison:



It seems that the bezel in the auction could be real, and it may well be the second series of bezels that had a thicker font that is centred in the bezel.

But it is impossible to tell for sure 100%

[idk01]

Most of the replica 1655/1665's I've seen the tops of the 4's are always incorrect.

[Lol-x]

See also on the fake bezel how the separator bars have been applied in an imprecise way such that they in some cases extend right to the inner edge of the bezel.

On the other hand the auction bezel has very precisely applied separator markers that connote quality and precise machining.

I'm not saying it is real, but there are some attributes that give it some credibility.

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by idk01

Most of the replica 1655/1665's I've seen the tops of the 4's are always incorrect.

Very good point Dave

If you look at my fake example above you can see that the size of the 4's remains the same, whereas in a original bezel the size of the 4 changes from 4 to the ones in 14 and 24 (the latter ones being compressed).

One more tick on the side of genuine

[Andad]

Is that Tyme Quality 1655 OK?

The '2' on the datewheel looks a bit 'funny'.

[Andad]

But not as 'funny' as me Steve?

[idk01]

Here is a classic example of whats around in the 1665 with the erroneous 4's:

[idk01]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Very good point Dave

If you look at my fake example above you can see that the size of the 4's remains the same, whereas in a original bezel the size of the 4 changes from 4 to the ones in 14 and 24 (the latter ones being compressed).

One more tick on the side of genuine

One thing I find a little strange though, If this was sat at a jewelers shop wouldn't it be in Rolex packaging stating the part number and ref???? I find it just a little has to chew that it was just lying around.

[idk01]

Just to add another facet - Rolex Explorer II STEVE MCQUEEN 1655 Stainless Steel Replacement case

[tudorman8276]

Originally Posted by idk01

Here is a classic example of whats around in the 1665 with the erroneous 4's:

...notice how the bezel edge does NOT overlap the case side on the crown gd side of the case....

[Lol-x]

Stan I don't necessarily think one can judge a watch case as being genuine or otherwise by that characteristic.

For example this is a genuine case:

[idk01]

eBay need to let people see the bidders names, this is just a bit to.... how do I put it

l***l( 87Feedback score is 50 to 99) US $1,001.01
Aug-03-09 12:18:43 PDT

This bidder with 87 feedback, for all we know is a shill bidder.

[Lol-x]

I was just about to post those same photos Dave

I don't know, but I think the bezel in the auction is different from the appearance of the fake bezels

[idk01]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

I was just about to post those same photos Dave

I don't know, but I think the bezel in the auction is different from the appearance of the fake bezels

100% I'm hinging toward legit, my next plan is to see if the photos in this auction exist elsewhere :-) the plus fro this seller is he recently purchased oyster band parts.

[tudorman8276]

...lord only knows how many of the COUNTERFEIT cases are out there, that were produced in the fake factory, with GENUINE movements, some GENUINE dials, and some GENUINE bezels.

...worst part is, the counterfeits are STILL being produced.

...you can believe what you want, but those counterfeits do NOT have the bezels overlapping the case sides on the crn gd side of the cases.

...I wouldn't touch one of those 1655's with a 10' pole.

...just my opinions.

[Lol-x]

If you look at almost any 1655 from the side angle you will see the case extend out beyond where it meets the bezel.
For instance there are a lot of good examples of 1655s on www.chrono24.com that show that to be so.
However when you look at the watch front on, it appears that the bezel is basically equal with the edge of the case.
It just seems that on the face of many examples produced from sellers from all over the world that it is difficult to sustain the contention that because on the side angle you can see the case extend out beyond the edge of the bezel that the case is fake.
If one has papers, or a rolex service certificate, doesn't that too say the case is original Rolex?

Im just trying to get a handle on this for my own piece of mind. Everyone is entitled to opinions but it is useful to explore those opinions

[Lol-x]

Originally Posted by pablofields

No photos of the bottom or inner ring, which I unfortunately learned from personal experience can show counterfeit status ?

Are you referring to a 1655 bezel in your particular case?

Do you have any photographs of the underside of the bezel, or can you describe how the underside of the 1655 bezel should appear?

Thanks

[pablofields]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Are you referring to a 1655 bezel in your particular case?

Do you have any photographs of the underside of the bezel, or can you describe how the underside of the 1655 bezel should appear?

Thanks

Yes, as I mentioned above, I had a bad experience trying to buy an "everyday" 1655 bezel so I could put the original in safekeeping (this was before I got in touch with the great Mr. Mulholland!). Anyway the bezel I bought on ebay (seller in Italy) arrived and I took it to Rolex SC in San Francisco. Giovanni immediately gave it thumbs down. I don't have pix as per PayPal I destroyed it and got my money back. But the underside of the bezel and the inner edge had what I would describe as pronounced etchings that apparently were the result of the equipment used to produce the bezel (picture tree rings). The 3 real bezels I've handled in person (one early thick font and 2 service replacements) are much smoother looking to the naked eye on the underside and inner edge. Not sure how much this helps in the current situation--even if photos posted it might be hard to tell if the deep etchings are there.

[pablofields]

...on the negative side. The Mark I and II thick fonts do not have the brushed nickel appearance of the later service replacement or the bezel seen on the watch shown in this link.

Originally Posted by idk01

just to add another facet - rolex explorer ii steve mcqueen 1655 stainless steel replacement case

[Lol-x]

Some wackjob paid $2K+ for the bezel.....hold on a second, I'm not a wackjob.

[tudorman8276]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Some wackjob paid $2K+ for the bezel.....hold on a second, I'm not a wackjob.

Steve, were you the ACTUAL buyer of the bez??

[idk01]

Originally Posted by Lol-x

Some wackjob paid $2K+ for the bezel.....hold on a second, I'm not a wackjob.