Perpetual Calendar Watches: Help Please

[hgg43c]

For as long as i can remember I’ve always wanted to add a perpetual calendar watch but one of my issues other than price has been legibility. I tried to add an AP QP before Covid, but between not being able to secure the watch @ MSRP. I also found the dial unreadable. I don’t have an in with AP as my experience with the NY Boutique hasn’t been great.

Which brings me to the Lange 1 Perpetual - in pink gold/grey dial and the Patek 5236P - both watches imo are superbly simple, elegant and legible, similarly priced, automatic movements, I plan on wearing it on a regular rotation.

I do believe that F.P. Journey makes a QP that is also quite readable but I don’t think that that option is available to me as I don’t think getting one at MSRP is achievable.

I’d like to hear feedback from owners of either of these two watches, and also any other thoughts, considerations or suggestions of other perpetuals that I should perhaps consider.

Thank you

[ButtButt]

I don’t have a perpetual either but would also love to add one some day so very interested in the responses here. Something that’s attainable without a massive purchase history would be nice.

Between your listed choices of the Lange and PP I prefer the PP looks wise but that’s subjective. The instantaneous date change of the Lange sure is fun to look at though.

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by ButtButt

I don’t have a perpetual either but would also love to add one some day so very interested in the responses here. Something that’s attainable without a massive purchase history would be nice.

Between your listed choices of the Lange and PP I prefer the PP looks wise but that’s subjective. The instantaneous date change of the Lange sure is fun to look at though.

For sure watching Russell's video of the date change was very impressive.

[nyc2la]

Have you considered the VC Overseas QP? I wouldn’t be surprised if both options you mentioned will take some time and may even involve some degree of “purchase history”, which is ridiculous but many ADs are still living in the past…

For the VC QP, I found the Boutique was very nice to work with, and they will offer fair and honest guidance on attainability and timing. And depending on which one, it could be a reasonable time frame.

[RaZCaL]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

Have you considered the VC Overseas QP? I wouldn’t be surprised if both options you mentioned will take some time and may even involve some degree of “purchase history”, which is ridiculous but many ADs are still living in the past…

For the VC QP, I found the Boutique was very nice to work with, and they will offer fair and honest guidance on attainability and timing. And depending on which one, it could be a reasonable time frame.

+1 for VC.

[wirru]

I’ve been wanting a perpetual for years and finally got the Lange 1 perpetual yesterday. I got the white gold version but it is more or less what you have in mind.

I am loving it so far. It is elegant and discreet. I like that the dial layout is clean and beautiful. The hands never overlap, so you avoid those moments during the day (such as on the AP RO QP and VC Overseas QP) where you can’t read all of the information. I was worried about the 41.9mm case size, but it actually fits quite well on my 17cm wrist.

I wish that the hands had lume (for practicality and everyday wear) and that the case were a bit thinner. I was able to purchase this as my second Lange piece so did not have a very deep history with the boutique.

I was also interested in the AP QP and VC QP. I might still get them. The VC QP is great because of how thin it is, but I believe it is still hard to get without a decent purchase history. Probably attainable within 1 year if you have a decent purchase history and relationship.

The AP RO QP is iconic but will require a significant history with the brand. The FPJ QP is incredible but you would need to develop a strong relationship with a boutique to get one allocated and the timeline would be in the years. I didn’t consider the Patek as I don’t have a relationship with an AD yet.




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[Russell996]

Not sure if you are only considering new pieces, but how about a complete curve ball from one of the holy trinity - a Malte 47112 perpetual chrono from VC. Same movement as Patek 5970, 39mm and hunter back in PT or Gold. I think the art deco style looks amazing.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by wirru

I’ve been wanting a perpetual for years and finally got the Lange 1 perpetual yesterday. I got the white gold version but it is more or less what you have in mind.

I am loving it so far. It is elegant and discreet. I like that the dial layout is clean and beautiful. The hands never overlap, so you avoid those moments during the day (such as on the AP RO QP and VC Overseas QP) where you can’t read all of the information. I was worried about the 41.9mm case size, but it actually fits quite well on my 17cm wrist.

I wish that the hands had lume (for practicality and everyday wear) and that the case were a bit thinner. I was able to purchase this as my second Lange piece so did not have a very deep history with the boutique.

I was also interested in the AP QP and VC QP. I might still get them. The VC QP is great because of how thin it is, but I believe it is still hard to get without a decent purchase history. Probably attainable within 1 year if you have a decent purchase history and relationship.

The AP RO QP is iconic but will require a significant history with the brand. The FPJ QP is incredible but you would need to develop a strong relationship with a boutique to get one allocated and the timeline would be in the years. I didn’t consider the Patek as I don’t have a relationship with an AD yet.




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Congratulations - looks great

[llngoc]

Ever consider the MB&F LM Perpetual? It is with a real innovative new perpetual movement which is "unbreakable". Finishing is also top notch. Don't be scared of the 44mm case size as it wears a lot smaller than the number.

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

Have you considered the VC Overseas QP? I wouldn’t be surprised if both options you mentioned will take some time and may even involve some degree of “purchase history”, which is ridiculous but many ADs are still living in the past…

For the VC QP, I found the Boutique was very nice to work with, and they will offer fair and honest guidance on attainability and timing. And depending on which one, it could be a reasonable time frame.

Thanks for suggesting the VC Overseas QP - I'll check it out - it does look nice.

I know I can get the Lange PC - most likely delivery next year, and with regard to the Patek - I think I can get that as well as long as my AD actually answers my call - otherwise I believe the grey market is cheaper than MSRP so thats a plus as well.

I just need to get both watches on my wrist.

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Not sure if you are only considering new pieces, but how about a complete curve ball from one of the holy trinity - a Malte 47112 perpetual chrono from VC. Same movement as Patek 5970, 39mm and hunter back in PT or Gold. I think the art deco style looks amazing.

Thanks for suggesting this - it does look amazing - I'll check it out. I seem to prefer watches that are a little larger in diameter.

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by llngoc

Ever consider the MB&F LM Perpetual? It is with a real innovative new perpetual movement which is "unbreakable". Finishing is also top notch. Don't be scared of the 44mm case size as it wears a lot smaller than the number.

Interesting suggestion - thanks - its an amazing watch - not sure how legible it is for me - other than that - whats the price point and is it obtainable ?

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by wirru

I’ve been wanting a perpetual for years and finally got the Lange 1 perpetual yesterday. I got the white gold version but it is more or less what you have in mind.

I am loving it so far. It is elegant and discreet. I like that the dial layout is clean and beautiful. The hands never overlap, so you avoid those moments during the day (such as on the AP RO QP and VC Overseas QP) where you can’t read all of the information. I was worried about the 41.9mm case size, but it actually fits quite well on my 17cm wrist.

I wish that the hands had lume (for practicality and everyday wear) and that the case were a bit thinner. I was able to purchase this as my second Lange piece so did not have a very deep history with the boutique.

I was also interested in the AP QP and VC QP. I might still get them. The VC QP is great because of how thin it is, but I believe it is still hard to get without a decent purchase history. Probably attainable within 1 year if you have a decent purchase history and relationship.

The AP RO QP is iconic but will require a significant history with the brand. The FPJ QP is incredible but you would need to develop a strong relationship with a boutique to get one allocated and the timeline would be in the years. I didn’t consider the Patek as I don’t have a relationship with an AD yet.




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Thanks for such an insightful response.
If I were to go with either the Lange or the Patek - it would be my second purchase with either company. I know I can get the Lange and think I can get the Patek. i do plan on checking out the VC OP as well.
You mentioned that you wished the hands had lume - I'm a bit surprised that they dont have any. How is legibility at night?

[wirru]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Congratulations - looks great

Thank you!

Originally Posted by hgg43c

Thanks for such an insightful response.
If I were to go with either the Lange or the Patek - it would be my second purchase with either company. I know I can get the Lange and think I can get the Patek. i do plan on checking out the VC OP as well.
You mentioned that you wished the hands had lume - I'm a bit surprised that they dont have any. How is legibility at night?

FYI, the standard Lange 1 Pink Gold case w/ Grey Dial does indeed have lumed hands. It is only the White Gold version I have which does not have lumed hands.

I need more time to assess legibility in the evenings/nighttime during real world scenarios. Even on my piece during the day, legibility is not perfect since the contrast between the pink gold dial and the white gold hands is not huge. I'm still getting used to it... I'm sure it won't be a problem over time.

Note also that the standard Lange 1 w/ Grey Dial has higher contrast between the dial and the hands (in addition to lumed hands), so this should not be a concern at all for you IMO.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by hgg43c

Interesting suggestion - thanks - its an amazing watch - not sure how legible it is for me - other than that - whats the price point and is it obtainable ?

It is about 150-160k CHF. As for availability, I think if you are willing to wait for a year, it should be doable.

The movement is a "break through" and finishing is very good.

[wirru]

Originally Posted by llngoc

It is about 150-160k CHF. As for availability, I think if you are willing to wait for a year, it should be doable.

The movement is a "break through" and finishing is very good.

I tried this watch on at the MB&F M.A.D. Gallery in Geneva last week. It was truly special. The 44mm size was very wearable. Felt very sporty, modern, rugged. I would wear that thing everywhere all the time without worrying about hurting it. For my personal taste, the design is too avant-garde to wear every day. But I would love one some day.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by wirru

I tried this watch on at the MB&F M.A.D. Gallery in Geneva last week. It was truly special. The 44mm size was very wearable. Felt very sporty, modern, rugged. I would wear that thing everywhere all the time without worrying about hurting it. For my personal taste, the design is too avant-garde to wear every day. But I would love one some day.

The EVO model is basically a sports watch with flex ring and screw down crown. I can completely see how the design of MB&F is very personal taste. I was not into the look until I got the LM101. Now you can say that I drank the "kool aide"

After I got the LM101 and tried on the regular 44mm LMs, the LM101 at 40mm actually felt smallish. Even my wife who is not a fan of big watches also feels the 44mm is a better size. And 44mm was one of the reasons I have avoided MB&F for a while.

[Ichiran]

I think the 5320 matches almost all your criteria here - superbly simple, elegant and legible, automatic movement. The price is much lower than the 5236P.

[Ichiran]

At approximately the same price point as the 5320 above, the Journe QP is also an excellent choice. It comes in 40 or 42mm and has an instantaneous date change. Legibility is great on this one. Automatic.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I think the 5320 matches almost all your criteria here - superbly simple, elegant and legible, automatic movement. The price is much lower than the 5236P.

for 5320. One of my favorite Pateks.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by llngoc

for 5320. One of my favorite Pateks.

The only slight concern is I'm not sure if it is readily available from AD, although secondary market is at a discount. I think the Journe QP is also not that easy to obtain as the secondary mark up is substantial.

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

The only slight concern is I'm not sure if it is readily available from AD, although secondary market is at a discount. I think the Journe QP is also not that easy to obtain as the secondary mark up is substantial.

From AD may not be easy but secondary price for the cream dial is quite soft. As for FPJ, we all know it won't be easy but I have learned that with some patience, it is doable. Good thing is that you don't need to bundle at the boutique. (That's probably what everyone is hoping for.)

[noobs]

how about the AP QP ultra-thin? if you have the history and $$

[rockdrock]

Perhaps a quirky option and a design that is unique and very readable. HMoser has a QP movement that is strong and stable. Check out their options. I had this one my list for some time.



Credit: WatchBox

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by wirru

Thank you!



FYI, the standard Lange 1 Pink Gold case w/ Grey Dial does indeed have lumed hands. It is only the White Gold version I have which does not have lumed hands.

I need more time to assess legibility in the evenings/nighttime during real world scenarios. Even on my piece during the day, legibility is not perfect since the contrast between the pink gold dial and the white gold hands is not huge. I'm still getting used to it... I'm sure it won't be a problem over time.

Note also that the standard Lange 1 w/ Grey Dial has higher contrast between the dial and the hands (in addition to lumed hands), so this should not be a concern at all for you IMO.

Thanks for clarifying.

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by llngoc

The EVO model is basically a sports watch with flex ring and screw down crown. I can completely see how the design of MB&F is very personal taste. I was not into the look until I got the LM101. Now you can say that I drank the "kool aide"

After I got the LM101 and tried on the regular 44mm LMs, the LM101 at 40mm actually felt smallish. Even my wife who is not a fan of big watches also feels the 44mm is a better size. And 44mm was one of the reasons I have avoided MB&F for a while.

I can see why you are such a fan of MB&F, this watch is another technological marvel from Max & Co. Spending 150-160K CHF would place it on the upper end of my budget for my next watch. It would also allow make it easier to secure a MAD 1 for my son, as the last two raffles have been unfavorable.

But, for me I think its a bit cutting edge for a watch that I would want to wear on a regular basis. So, I'll keep this under advisement but on the back burner for now.

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I think the 5320 matches almost all your criteria here - superbly simple, elegant and legible, automatic movement. The price is much lower than the 5236P.

Thanks friend, I forgot about this watch. My AD was telling me about the cream color dial a while back. But, I think I got the model # confused with another watch.

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

At approximately the same price point as the 5320 above, the Journe QP is also an excellent choice. It comes in 40 or 42mm and has an instantaneous date change. Legibility is great on this one. Automatic.

The Journe is lovely, checks so many boxes, but doubt its obtainable, and for me thats an important consideration. I dont mind the chase, and can wait a max of 12 months for a watch

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by noobs

how about the AP QP ultra-thin? if you have the history and $$

Thanks for suggesting one of my favorites, but I'm one for two. Yes I could swing the purchase, but no I dont have a purchase history. But then again if I did I would try to get this, no clue how much it is, but it looks amazing.

https://www.audemarspiguet.com/com/e...D002CR.04.html

[hgg43c]

Originally Posted by rockdrock

Perhaps a quirky option and a design that is unique and very readable. HMoser has a QP movement that is strong and stable. Check out their options. I had this one my list for some time.



Credit: WatchBox

amazing price, but you are right a bit quirky. For me I want to stay between 4 - 5 watches max.