Rolex expedition watches

[Subfiend]

So, I have listed my Daytona on the Buy/Sell section of the forum and I have been getting a lot of good offers from very thoughtful members. Because I mentioned in my description that I wore this watch when I led a Titanic expedition in 2005, and specifically on a dive to explore a previously unknown area of the wreck site, I thought the watch might be worth a little more because of its connection to exploration. How much more? I really don't know and, frankly, I had not given it much thought before I listed the watch.

Now, however, I have been asked directly, so I did more research on prices of watches associated with bona fide exploration that have recently sold or been offered at auction by Antiquorum. I listed some of the old Anitquorum lot numbers in the description, but I did not know that more watches were being offered over the weekend. I went back and reviewed the lots I had listed and I searched the new catalog. The results were astonishing. Here are just a few:

1. A Rolex Explorer, ref. 1016, worn on the "Sanae 27" expedition in the Antarctic in 1986-1987, did not sell this weekend, but it had an estimate of $28,000 USD - $37,000 USD;

2. $21,662 USD for the 1986 Explorer II worn on the "North Geomag Pole" expedition;

3. 43,700 CHF ($34,381 USD) for the Explorer II/GMT worn on the 1979-82 Transglobe Expedition; and

4. my personal favorite, the 1997 COMEX Mt. Everest Explorer. It carried an estimate of $30,000 USD - $40,000 USD, even though it never saw the mountain or even Nepal. It was worn in a hyperbaric chamber in a lab in France.

Even presentation watches, like a Panama Canal Sub and Cigarette Racing Sub are going for high prices: $16,100 USD and $9,260.69 USD, respectively. These have a unique story behind them, but they are not individual watches. Instead, they are part of limited runs.

I am not any closer to figuring out if my own Daytona is worth a little or a lot more because I wore it on an expedition, but a little surfing through old auction catalogs was surely an eye-opener.

[nikhsub1]

I think it truly depends on the buyer. For me personally, it makes no difference where the watch explored. It's been to Mars? No matter to me! But like I said I know there are buyers out there where these facts do add value. I would think that to get the most money out of such watches would be at auction, but perhaps among the various forums you would fine someone as well.

[JJ Irani]

Hey David,

That is some great information and I do find it surprising that people would pay top dollar for provenance.

So how does one go about proving that such and such watch was worn on such and such expedition, etc.?

JJ

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Hey David,

That is some great information and I do find it surprising that people would pay top dollar for provenance.

So how does one go about proving that such and such watch was worn on such and such expedition, etc.?

JJ

I agree - where the watch has been makes no difference to me.

I would think the only way to prove it would be to have a photo of the watch, showing the serial number, at whatever place you claim it's been to. Even then you would have to verify it's not a photoshop job.

[astcell]

We have seen examples here that a Rolex with a history is always more valuable, maybe not in dollars, but in appreciation for the watch and the things it has seen over its lifetime.

Rolexes will be aorund for a long time and will see more than you or I see in a lifetime. Some of them are bound to live through experiences. It is wonderful when they can be documented for the next generation, lest things be lost to history.

[Launch Mini]

I would be curious as to "whom" the owners of the above watches were.
That often makes a difference, rather than just where the watch was.
Look at celebrity autos, clothing etc. Prove who wore it, drove it etc, is more important than where it was.
Just my opinion

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Launch Mini

I would be curious as to "whom" the owners of the above watches were.
That often makes a difference, rather than just where the watch was.
Look at celebrity autos, clothing etc. Prove who wore it, drove it etc, is more important than where it was.
Just my opinion

Agreed, John. At any museum, Provenance is associated more with the person who wore or used the object rather than where or when that object was used.

JJ

[Subfiend]

I agree that establishing provenance is critical to establishing increased value, and a "celebrity" watch is more valuable than a watch worn by somebody unknown. However, in the past sales I have looked at, the owner's identity does not seem to have added much value. It's the watch's history that seems to be important.

For example, no owners were identified for the Sanae 27 expedition and COMEX-Everest '97 watches. The same goes for the Cigarette Racing and Panama Canal Subs, and for most COMEX Subs and SDs that are commanding such high prices. It seems to be rarity and story are the most important factors in establishing the initial value, with celebrity/owner history adding value on top. The fact is, these watches rarely come on the market, so there does not appear to be any consistency in price other than the prices are higher than comparable watches from the same period.

Then again, this is just an unscientific weekend survey of a few auctions. A watch is worth as much as somebody is willing to pay for it and the seller is willing to accept, whatever factors may influence that decision.

[mike]

I think within the collecting community there are always going to be those that will pay a premium for a watch with a unique provenance.
Mil subs and Comex watches aside, what do you think the value would be on say--Chuck Yeager's Rolex? Col. Jack Swiggert's GMT that went around the moon?--That's in the Rolex museum. How about Che's GMT and Sub?

These are watches that are more than the sum of their parts. Common pieces that belonged to uncommon men or went to places the rest of us talk about. In one sence pieces like these belong to history.

There are those collectors that only look to pieces where provenance can be established. Witness the recent thread on the POWs watch from WWII. A watch that had been re-dialed, but because of it's unique documented history went for a bunch.

Good luck with the sale David. I think I would gather as much supporting documentation as I could. Maybe add a notarized letter from you, and see what the market will bring.

IMHO though, the watch has truly gone "where no man has gone before" I'd keep it. To me it would be priceless.

[Subfiend]

Actually Mike, I think I will keep it. At least that's the direction I am leaning.

As far as establishing provenance, you usually see a notarized letter from the owner along with photos of the watch in the field. Original sales documents are also good to have. In my case, I could supply this as well as an endless stream of supplemental documentation -- letters, crew lists, photos, the charter agreement for the ship and subs, dive logs, patches given to divers, certificates, etc., etc.

[mike]

Originally Posted by Subfiend

Actually Mike, I think I will keep it. At least that's the direction I am leaning.

As far as establishing provenance, you usually see a notarized letter from the owner along with photos of the watch in the field. Original sales documents are also good to have. In my case, I could supply this as well as an endless stream of supplemental documentation -- letters, crew lists, photos, the charter agreement for the ship and subs, dive logs, patches given to divers, certificates, etc., etc.

[nikhsub1]

Originally Posted by Subfiend

Actually Mike, I think I will keep it. At least that's the direction I am leaning.

I think you are making the right decision! That watch will never have more meaning to anyone but YOU.

[Launch Mini]

I would be more inclined to offer a bit of a premium if the watch matched the expedition.
Say a Daytona worn by a racecar driver.
A seadweller to the Titanic.
But that is just me.
I don't think Michael Jordans dress shoes fetch as much as his runners

[ginzo]

Originally Posted by Subfiend

Actually Mike, I think I will keep it. At least that's the direction I am leaning.

As far as establishing provenance, you usually see a notarized letter from the owner along with photos of the watch in the field. Original sales documents are also good to have. In my case, I could supply this as well as an endless stream of supplemental documentation -- letters, crew lists, photos, the charter agreement for the ship and subs, dive logs, patches given to divers, certificates, etc., etc.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/roadsh...rovenance.html

With some fancy words flying around I had to do some extra research and found this link .

[Subfiend]

Originally Posted by Launch Mini

I would be more inclined to offer a bit of a premium if the watch matched the expedition.... A seadweller to the Titanic.

I have one of those too, but it's not for sale.