Grey Market Pricing

[ppierce]

Why am I still see Subs for 13-15k on the grey market? Are folks still paying this?


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[Rmoor]

Yes as long as you can’t walk in and buy a new sub at msrp they will trade over on the secondary market.

Originally Posted by ppierce

Why am I still see Subs for 13-15k on the grey market? Are folks still paying this?


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[wm82]

No, noone with a brain is paying that anymore. Prices are on a steady decline.

[koronet-kid]

But when you’re selling to a grey dealer the really take the p155

[Hollie_Rollie]

Probably not many. I would imagine we’re at a point where a lot of people who are willing to pay grey have already paid. The rest of us are just enjoying life and if it happens at an AD it happens…


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[Mathematoxic]

Greys are already paying at or below retail for the no date sub. Used sub date dealer take in prices are at $12k to $12.5k. These price drops signals either a lower demand or higher supply. This has been the trend for the past 2yrs. Nothing much is moving. Don’t be fooled by the grey dealers’ asking prices

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by ppierce

Are folks still paying this?

Unknown. What is known is that sellers are still asking this.

[padi56]

Speaking for myself would never pay inflated grey prices for any watch.

[gerry100]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

Unknown. What is known is that sellers are still asking this.

Actual negotiated selling price is unknown but will decline in a soft market well before asking prices

Negotiate

[ppierce]

I’d pay retail plus sales tax plus a couple hundred dollar kicker and that’s it. So for no date I’d be willing to pay $9100 msrp plus 8% plus $300 tops…..$10,128.


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[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by gerry100

Actual negotiated selling price is unknown

Exactly. I'm guessing it's somewhat below what sellers are asking but I'm guessing.

[johnk]

In the U.S. a new LN Submariner Date lists for $10,800. Factoring in a modest 6% sales tax, the 'out the door' price is ~$11,500 from an AD.

Most quality Grey dealers do not charge sales tax on out of state sales. I would pay the ~$13k+ all day long to not have to not have to play uncertain (year-long in some cases) AD "get on the list' games and have the same quality watch delivered to my door via Fedx by noon the next day while I'm finishing my morning coffee... (less than 24 hours after I make the decision to buy)

If I can get something from an AD that's great and my preference, if not, I'm not going to go without that watch experiance for a paltry ~$1500 in this example... That ~$1500 becomes meaningless the moment I put the watch on and enjoy that instant gratification.

.

[offrdmania]

Gray market will always play the game of selling pieces back and forth to other dealers at inflated prices to give the illusion that this is the market price when in actuality, watches are sitting and there are more and more reports of customers walking into ADs and getting pieces at MSRP or below.

[dgjks6]

Noob here so don’t roast me -
So just so I understand - when you guys talk about the gray market, is it for new watches not from an AD, used watches of the latest gen (for example 126613…) or all used subs?

[Bazil]

If you want it that bad then you’ll pay for it if you have the money ..

[996marty]

They might be asking those sorts of prices but that doesn’t mean that’s the sale price

[salnuaimi]

Yes selling on daily basis here in Dubai between 13-13.5k usd

[spinnaker226]

Originally Posted by ppierce

Why am I still see Subs for 13-15k on the grey market? Are folks still paying this?


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I personally wouldn't. I'm on the waiting list for a no date sub and have budgeted my disposable income according to what Rolex say's the watch is worth. Whenever they do their annual price increase, I will put more funds aside to purchase in cash (typically, ill pay with card to get the cash back rewards, and then pay the card off immediately).

Buying through a grey market dealer and paying 30% premium to "have it now" never made sense to me, but to each their own. In my eyes, that extra 30% could be invested elsewhere and grow to fund something else so i'd rather wait it out. But again, that's what works best for me at this stage in life.

[yankeeromeo]

They aren't selling in London. Dealers who over paid trying to claw back some money

[ppierce]

Originally Posted by Bazil

If you want it that bad then you’ll pay for it if you have the money ..

I want it that bad but still won’t pay it


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[dnd2984]

I know many folks who pay Grey Prices. I won't, but some one instant gratification. My best friend paid 45k for a white dial Daytona SS few years back. He has a great collection and all from Grey

[Sublovin]

Paying even $1 over retail is wildly foolish in my opinion. I won’t participate in the games of inflated prices and faux collectibility

[2000-NJDEVILS]

Maybe this helps -
I just purchased a BNIB DSSD 136660 for MSRP and no sales tax (had it shipped out of state).
On the other hand, paying over list is still rampant with buying Porsche 911’s. If you don’t pay the 3-7% over MSRP to the dealer - you will be waiting to Spec out your new ride for a very, very long time…And if you go out of state, you will still need the local dealer for maintenance and they are not so gracious to those who haven’t given them any business. That said, I had to pay 3.5% over list to get an allocation to Spec and get an estimated delivery of June 10……

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by dgjks6

Noob here so don’t roast me -
So just so I understand - when you guys talk about the gray market, is it for new watches not from an AD, used watches of the latest gen (for example 126613…) or all used subs?

The gray market here is the entire used watch business.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by johnk

In the U.S. a new LN Submariner Date lists for $10,800. Factoring in a modest 6% sales tax, the 'out the door' price is ~$11,500 from an AD.

Most quality Grey dealers do not charge sales tax on out of state sales. I would pay the ~$13k+ all day long to not have to not have to play uncertain (year-long in some cases) AD "get on the list' games and have the same quality watch delivered to my door via Fedx by noon the next day while I'm finishing my morning coffee... (less than 24 hours after I make the decision to buy)

If I can get something from an AD that's great and my preference, if not, I'm not going to go without that watch experiance for a paltry ~$1500 in this example... That ~$1500 becomes meaningless the moment I put the watch on and enjoy that instant gratification.

.

Unfortunately, you still owe your states sales tax, if they have one, and enforcement is being beefed up in all states. There is a form you add to your regular state tex return.

[Socal Runner]

There are certain states that don't charge sales tax, however most states you will have to pay tax even when purchasing from a secondary dealer.

People are paying over retail for subs all day long and quite frankly it's a good thing, that's what makes your sub more desirable and value worthy. Supply and Demand. I'd rather have a sub than an omega seamaster which loses 10-20% of it's value right after purchasing in the boutique. The secondary premium is healthy in an open market and adds value to your watches.

[Eddiea]

Slowly but surely , AD's inventory is improving, gray prices would be dropping

[Block506]

Retail or bust!

[justdate]

Originally Posted by dgjks6

Noob here so don’t roast me -
So just so I understand - when you guys talk about the gray market, is it for new watches not from an AD, used watches of the latest gen (for example 126613…) or all used subs?

Grey market normally means (and on this site used to mean) genuine, brand new stock being sold to retail customers via non authorised channels.

A common one was for independent dealers to bulk buy brand new Rolex watches from authorised dealers, and then resell them at a discount - often overseas. E.g. a U.K. independent dealer would bulk buy 20 Rolex watches from an authorised dealer in Italy, bring them to the U.K., and then sell them to U.K. customers. So you as the retail customer were getting a brand new genuine item, but it was coming from a non authorised vendor of Rolex.

For some reason in the past years on this site, ‘grey market’ has just come to mean the entire secondary market. And a grey dealer is any secondary dealer - regardless of if their inventory is brand new from official channels, or they are buying used watches from retail customers.

[1William]

All watches are used unless they are sold through the established authorized dealers. So new in box from a Trusted Seller is a pre-owned witch. The market will hold for what the secondary dealers can get for a watch. No more or less. The Trusted Sellers are a resource that should be analyzed for price, timing and service. As with most things, asking price may not be getting price but you will have to have a conversation and negotiate your best price piece by piece.