The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Rolex General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22 September 2009, 10:38 PM   #1
TheVTCGuy
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Paul
Location: San Diego
Watch: 126619LB
Posts: 21,540
It Happened Again! Or: "Why do People do this!?"

I must have a sign on my forehead that says: "If you're a Moron, please come talk to me" So here's the situation: I'm at a party over the weekend, and join in a conversation with a couple guys I've just met about football... cars, women, usual guy stuff. I notice one of them is wearing a Sea-Dweller. During a lull, I ask him how he likes it. A huge smile comes over his face and he tells me how much he adores his watch, that he dives with it quite often, other watches could not hold up to the punishment, he was considering getting a deepsea, he looked at my Daytona and we kind of separated ourselves from the group and started talking Rolex WIS stuff. It was a very enjoyable conversation.

UP WALKS CAPTAIN IDIOT. He had overheard us discussing Rolex and decided to join in, with an agenda. "Let me ask you guys with Rolexs something, how much did they cost? Several thousand dollars?" The other WIS and I looked at each other quizzicly, but probably nodded some kind of aproval. Captain Idiot shows us his wrist and exclaims: "Well my Timex only cost $29 dollars, and it has an alarm, stopwatch, and is more accurate then your Rolex! The other WIS and I roll our eyes at each other, mutter something like: "That's nice" and try to turn away to continue our conversation. This guy is persistant, shoving his wrist in our face saying: "Tell me my watch doesn't do more then yours, and I only paid $29 dollars for it... go ahead tell me... blah blah blah" The other WIS and I forcefully walked by this guy to show we weren't interested in this conversation and went outside to continue are talk.

My question is WHY?, WHY do some people feel it necessary to chastise me for my timepiece selection? I NEVER demean, criticize, put down, ANYONE'S choice of watches, (even if it's the ugliest thing I've ever seen). If the subject of someone's else's watch comes up I ALWAYS compliment them on it, even just to say: "That's a nice looking watch" or something similar. If someone is proud of their $29 Timex, (as they should be), and they'd like to show it off, I give the courtesy of listening, and always, ALWAYS compliment them, no matter what make/model/price the watch is. I RESPECT thier decision to pay $29 for their watch, WHY can't they RESPECT my decision to spend a lot more on a Rolex? They don't have to agree with it, understand it, like it, but WHY do some people feel the need to chastise me about my choice? Has this ever happened to anyone else or do I have some special kind of attraction for these people?

OK, Rant over....
TheVTCGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 10:42 PM   #2
deserted
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: fort wayne IN
Watch: Patek 1909003
Posts: 2,176
Rolex watches do bring out the conversation in pepole .....it has happended to me several times even with some clients i represent.
deserted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 10:46 PM   #3
BigHat
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Real Name: Matt
Location: Arlington, VA
Watch: Lange One MP
Posts: 4,043
For every guy that says things like that, ten are thinking it.


The rationale for his behavior (aside from being obxious about it) is quite obvious and common. Some people buy watches simply to tell time and a dollar spend doing anything more than that is a dollar wasted in their view. Of course, everyone has some hobby, which by definition is money spend that need not be. He just doesn't share yours. Some reason people buy Honda Accords to get back and forth to work while others buy Porches.

Just buy what what you like. You'll be disappointed if you require the approval of others.
BigHat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 10:50 PM   #4
cody p
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Canada
Watch: Air-King 114200
Posts: 2,878
you have something nice/unusual/desireable. said fellow doesn't and feels envious. he tries to bring you down a notch while raising himself up by pointing out how foolish you are and how wise he is. why human nature?

nb - i would have been half interested if he was at least wearing a casio:)
cody p is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 10:55 PM   #5
BigHat
Banned
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Real Name: Matt
Location: Arlington, VA
Watch: Lange One MP
Posts: 4,043
Quote:
Originally Posted by cody p View Post
you have something nice/unusual/desireable. said fellow doesn't and feels envious. he tries to bring you down a notch while raising himself up by pointing out how foolish you are and how wise he is. why human nature?

nb - i would have been half interested if he was at least wearing a casio:)
Cody,
I think you hit on the obvious point and I missed it. To ACTUALLY initiate an undesired debate on the issue means he probably has thought about it, talked himself out of buying one, and is just coping by challenging a stranger about a personal decision on what one should buy.
BigHat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 10:56 PM   #6
ROLEX MAN
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
ROLEX MAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Martin
Location: Home and Away
Watch: you? "YES PLEASE"!
Posts: 3,719
I had the same experience happen to me a few days ago,

only this one was a hong kong folex special for $25.00, and this guy went on and on and on how all these "Rolex's" were made in china nowadays anyway.

He made me feel like a schmuck to spend so much on a watch.
__________________


it's not just about telling the time...

happy rolexing...



I'm just a man with a passion
ROLEX MAN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 10:57 PM   #7
TheVTCGuy
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Paul
Location: San Diego
Watch: 126619LB
Posts: 21,540
Quote:
Originally Posted by cody p View Post
you have something nice/unusual/desireable. said fellow doesn't and feels envious. he tries to bring you down a notch while raising himself up by pointing out how foolish you are and how wise he is. why human nature?

nb - i would have been half interested if he was at least wearing a casio:)
You know Cody, that's exactly the train of thought I was conjuring up... but couldn't put in to words. Thanks, this is the conclusion I was working on.... Glad one of us is smart enough to express it clearly Cody!
TheVTCGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 10:58 PM   #8
rolexgiants
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: new york, usa
Posts: 2,903
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy View Post
I must have a sign on my forehead that says: "If you're a Moron, please come talk to me" So here's the situation: I'm at a party over the weekend, and join in a conversation with a couple guys I've just met about football... cars, women, usual guy stuff. I notice one of them is wearing a Sea-Dweller. During a lull, I ask him how he likes it. A huge smile comes over his face and he tells me how much he adores his watch, that he dives with it quite often, other watches could not hold up to the punishment, he was considering getting a deepsea, he looked at my Daytona and we kind of separated ourselves from the group and started talking Rolex WIS stuff. It was a very enjoyable conversation.

UP WALKS CAPTAIN IDIOT. He had overheard us discussing Rolex and decided to join in, with an agenda. "Let me ask you guys with Rolexs something, how much did they cost? Several thousand dollars?" The other WIS and I looked at each other quizzicly, but probably nodded some kind of aproval. Captain Idiot shows us his wrist and exclaims: "Well my Timex only cost $29 dollars, and it has an alarm, stopwatch, and is more accurate then your Rolex! The other WIS and I roll our eyes at each other, mutter something like: "That's nice" and try to turn away to continue our conversation. This guy is persistant, shoving his wrist in our face saying: "Tell me my watch doesn't do more then yours, and I only paid $29 dollars for it... go ahead tell me... blah blah blah" The other WIS and I forcefully walked by this guy to show we weren't interested in this conversation and went outside to continue are talk.

My question is WHY?, WHY do some people feel it necessary to chastise me for my timepiece selection? I NEVER demean, criticize, put down, ANYONE'S choice of watches, (even if it's the ugliest thing I've ever seen). If the subject of someone's else's watch comes up I ALWAYS compliment them on it, even just to say: "That's a nice looking watch" or something similar. If someone is proud of their $29 Timex, (as they should be), and they'd like to show it off, I give the courtesy of listening, and always, ALWAYS compliment them, no matter what make/model/price the watch is. I RESPECT thier decision to pay $29 for their watch, WHY can't they RESPECT my decision to spend a lot more on a Rolex? They don't have to agree with it, understand it, like it, but WHY do some people feel the need to chastise me about my choice? Has this ever happened to anyone else or do I have some special kind of attraction for these people?

OK, Rant over....
i would have laughed... who cares what other people think about anything.... more importantly.... what a huge win by the giants on sunday night!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ELI with another late drive.......
rolexgiants is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:00 PM   #9
Lol-x
Facilitator
 
Lol-x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Real Name: Steve
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 33,588
I really have little time for people who do not respect what watch I choose to wear.
I had a similar experience recently, I told him his Swatch was a great looking gay watch! He didn't like that, but at least I felt good
__________________

Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. ~Abraham Lincoln
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy

ROLEXploitation - yeah I'm a victim
Lol-x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:03 PM   #10
STEELINOX
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
STEELINOX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Sink-O!
Location: a praire in AZ
Watch: ROLEX-less atm...
Posts: 14,021
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy View Post
I must have a sign on my forehead that says: "If you're a Moron, please come talk to me" So here's the situation: I'm at a party over the weekend, and join in a conversation with a couple guys I've just met about football... cars, women, usual guy stuff. I notice one of them is wearing a Sea-Dweller. During a lull, I ask him how he likes it. A huge smile comes over his face and he tells me how much he adores his watch, that he dives with it quite often, other watches could not hold up to the punishment, he was considering getting a deepsea, he looked at my Daytona and we kind of separated ourselves from the group and started talking Rolex WIS stuff. It was a very enjoyable conversation.

UP WALKS CAPTAIN IDIOT. He had overheard us discussing Rolex and decided to join in, with an agenda. "Let me ask you guys with Rolexs something, how much did they cost? Several thousand dollars?" The other WIS and I looked at each other quizzicly, but probably nodded some kind of aproval. Captain Idiot shows us his wrist and exclaims: "Well my Timex only cost $29 dollars, and it has an alarm, stopwatch, and is more accurate then your Rolex! The other WIS and I roll our eyes at each other, mutter something like: "That's nice" and try to turn away to continue our conversation. This guy is persistant, shoving his wrist in our face saying: "Tell me my watch doesn't do more then yours, and I only paid $29 dollars for it... go ahead tell me... blah blah blah" The other WIS and I forcefully walked by this guy to show we weren't interested in this conversation and went outside to continue are talk.

My question is WHY?, WHY do some people feel it necessary to chastise me for my timepiece selection? I NEVER demean, criticize, put down, ANYONE'S choice of watches, (even if it's the ugliest thing I've ever seen). If the subject of someone's else's watch comes up I ALWAYS compliment them on it, even just to say: "That's a nice looking watch" or something similar. If someone is proud of their $29 Timex, (as they should be), and they'd like to show it off, I give the courtesy of listening, and always, ALWAYS compliment them, no matter what make/model/price the watch is. I RESPECT thier decision to pay $29 for their watch, WHY can't they RESPECT my decision to spend a lot more on a Rolex? They don't have to agree with it, understand it, like it, but WHY do some people feel the need to chastise me about my choice? Has this ever happened to anyone else or do I have some special kind of attraction for these people?

OK, Rant over....
Public places and WISs that will NEVER learn !
"tamale" !
And lets not mince words, you paid in the neighborhood of 10 grand for the DAYTONA, so spell it out and dont be shy; at least a, "yea, I paid about ten thousand dollars for it and it is worth waaay more than your silly TIMEX, (and) shouldnt you be washing dishes in the back ! "
STEELINOX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:09 PM   #11
ducatidoc
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: the doc side
Watch: zenith
Posts: 3,779
There's always somebody who just doesn't get it...

...never has, never will, and can't stand the fact that you do. Pity. But then, if everybody was able to appreciate and afford a luxury watch, they wouldn't be luxurious any more. So, in a sense, we need people like that idiot, and we should encourage him to spawn more like him. We'll keep The Secret to ourselves.
__________________
The payments remain long after the novelty has worn off.

# 26371
NAWCC Member
ducatidoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:12 PM   #12
icnbne
"TRF" Member
 
icnbne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Real Name: J
Location: Brisbane
Watch: Rolex Omega Seiko
Posts: 1,562
hahaha

its like a 9 year old kid asking why people spend tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in paintings when they can get a movie poster for $5..
I personally ain't in to art, but I would respect their reasons of buying, and would at the very least compliment it (even if its a white lie)..
(this is based on my dad... a huge art nut..)

same goes for watches, same goes for cars, same goes for homes etc etc.
they are just arrogant if not jealous people..
icnbne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:13 PM   #13
OneArmMan
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Real Name: John
Location: TAMPA
Watch: GMT IIc
Posts: 74
Frankly IMO this gentleman is 100 percent correct. I certainly would never buy a Rolex to tell the time (that is if I want accuracy), nor would I buy a Rolex if I was looking at the purchase from a cost-effectiveness standpoint. Regarding complications a Rolex pales in comparison to many Timex's. Essentially if you compare a current Timex with any Rolex in terms of "performance" a Rolex looks pitiful on paper.
In today's world the time is everywhere you look, in fact it is always in the upper right corner of my Mac. I wear a Rolex simply because it is the only piece of "jewelry" that appeals to me.
The understanding that I have a "Micro-Machine" on my wrist with all those little wheels, springs, and other assorted mechanical gizmos spinning around inside there is what makes this piece of "jewelry" appeal to me. I wouldn't be caught dead wearing a gold chain on my neck or some tacky ring on my hand. Now put a Rolex on my wrist and I have one of the most beautiful pieces of jewelry you can own. The watch can be seen from 20-30 feet away yet it looks tasteful. And the best part is that every once in awhile I remember that I can see what time it is by using my Rolex.
I always tell anyone who is getting married to give the wife a Rolex instead of a diamond ring. If not for De Beers and their brilliant marketing strategy at the turn of the 20'th century everyone may be giving each other a Rolex when getting married. "This watch is to show that I will be with you till the end of time" or some other marketing strategy could have put a Rolex on every married woman's wrist!
OneArmMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:15 PM   #14
The GMT Master
"TRF" Member
 
The GMT Master's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: England
Posts: 8,150
"Where did you get your Rolex? Leaders in all walks of life acknowledge that pride of Rolex ownership starts conversations...makes strangers friends and distinguishes each as a person of taste and judgment. This is to be expected...for discriminating leaders throughout the world depend upon Rolex to guard their precious time." –Bob Hope

As posted on Jake's Rolex Blog, that kind of sums up Rolex ownership - we're all part of a club, so to speak, and it is a great conversation starter. Clearly Paul experienced this before it got ruined by Mr Rolex-hater. I get exactly the same thing with people who own fake Rolexes, and I think it's purely down to reverse snobbery and a lack of appreciation for the craftsmanship that goes into a luxury watch. All you can do is smile, nod your head and move on, as Paul did. Any true WIS will not go out of their way to denigrate another person's watch, and treat others' watches with the same respect they pay to their own watch. It's just a shame that some people don't play by the same rules and try to belittle you.
The GMT Master is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:22 PM   #15
Wink
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 84
Well put, Cody. The jerk simply wanted to feel better about himself. A Timex is probably all he can afford, and he resents that you can spend the price of a good used car for a watch. Some people can only build themselves up by seeking to tear others down. He likely has a pattern of such behaviors. Pity the fool.

Best,
Wink
Wink is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:24 PM   #16
c2tcardin
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Real Name: Jeff
Location: NH
Watch: Pam 312 & DJ II
Posts: 312
If you don't get it, then you just don't get it. That's all I would have said.
__________________
Cheers, Jeff
------------------------------------------------------
PAM 312, DJ II
c2tcardin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:38 PM   #17
redshirt1957
"TRF" Member
 
redshirt1957's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Real Name: Bubba
Location: Bitsyville!
Watch: Blue YM today!
Posts: 10,053
Watches? Cars? Hobbies? Hell, I have spent more money on women than everthing else added together. My point? Ain't like I am one to give advice on how folks should spend their money.
redshirt1957 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:38 PM   #18
RedBaronF2001
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Real Name: Chris
Location: Nashville, TN
Posts: 575
I get the "is it real" and "how much did you pay for it" quite often and I just respond with "I bought it on the street corner for $25" - that shuts 'em up real quick.
RedBaronF2001 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:39 PM   #19
novae500
"TRF" Member
 
novae500's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: VA
Posts: 965
Why do geeks spend $3k or more for laptops? $5k and up for desktops for gaming? Cause thats their vice. But for watch lovers like us, we tend to splurge on watches. Watches and guns are my vice, besides chips/pizza.

My dd driver is my 10yr old civic si, while i keep my nicer ride in the garage.
novae500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 September 2009, 11:49 PM   #20
TempoKing
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Anastasios
Location: Athens Greece
Watch: Rolex GMT 1675
Posts: 8,497
Your answer is.... Jealousy
TempoKing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 12:23 AM   #21
BahnNZ
"TRF" Member
 
BahnNZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Real Name: Hugh
Location: Auckland
Watch: GMT Master
Posts: 14
It's rather like going up to someone with a Lamborghini or a Ferrari and saying "My Mini Cooper gets way better mileage! Why did you waste all your money on that then?"

Rather than what you should do which is appreciate a fine automobile.
BahnNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 12:23 AM   #22
sexner
"TRF" Member
 
sexner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Real Name: 4Q
Location: Nowhere near you
Watch: 169622, 124060
Posts: 2,014
WHY do some people feel the need to chastise me about my choice? Has this ever happened to anyone else or do I have some special kind of attraction for these people?

Good question.

I have NEVER cared enough about other people to even begin to try and figure them out or care one iota about what they think of me. I don't think you have an attraction to these people, Paul - it just happens sometimes.

Let the idiots rant then carry-on being secure and happy with who you are and your accomplishments.

__________________
One should endeavor to do what is right not what is established.
sexner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 12:31 AM   #23
bodybump
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
2024 SubLV41 Sponsor & Boutique Seller
 
bodybump's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Real Name: Oscar
Location: Florida
Watch: Me!!!
Posts: 23,233
I think you are on a mission paul!!! i think you havent seen the worst yet...hahahahah maybe one of this days somebody will tell you "I can tell the time by watching the Sun!!!"
__________________
bodybump is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 12:43 AM   #24
JPersat
"TRF" Member
 
JPersat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Real Name: Jarrett
Location: San Antonio TX
Watch: ing everybody
Posts: 1,515
I dont know why it happens, but my dad does that same thing about his Timex to me all the time.
JPersat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 12:47 AM   #25
rkammer
"TRF" Member
 
rkammer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 440
My best friend (for over 45 years) is a perfect example of a non-WIS. He has one watch he wears and it's an off brand dive watch. He loves it because it has a little button on the side that lights the dial so he can tell the time when he wakes up at night. He even loves it so much that he bought a second one for when this one gives up the ghost.

Point being that he, like most people, only wears a watch to tell time and cares not a twit for the jewelry or the mechanical wizardry aspects of a watch.

Then, there's the semi-WIS who does desire a watch that looks neat or makes a statement. The department stores are full of watches for these people.

If one has to ask "why do you spend umpty ump thousands of dollars for a watch", He won't appreciate whatever answer you give him. You were so right in just walking away.
__________________
Regards,
Ray K.
rkammer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 12:53 AM   #26
shandy
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Real Name: Ian
Location: canada
Posts: 1,724
I bet if you were in the washroom doing what comes naturally in a washroom and this guy glanced and yours and noticed it was bigger he would still argue his was in fact bigger and it was all an optical illusion

There are some people in this world that go through it seeing it only black and white, they have no idea there are a multitude of colours to enjoy in between, sounds like he is one of them, I think you handled it the right way, you knew you were not going to convince him, in fact there is no need to convince anyone...This is another reason why I attend very few parties, Just can't stand those types!
shandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 01:02 AM   #27
Launch Mini
"TRF" Member
 
Launch Mini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Real Name: John
Location: Canada, eh
Watch: can I?
Posts: 6,240
Happens to me occassionally.
My brother in law is an example. Similar comments that his $30 watch does this & that.
I never commented about his $80,000 Grady-White fishing boat ( by the way, he has not caught one fish this summer)
__________________
Something witty to go here.

Member # 293
Launch Mini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 01:02 AM   #28
daveathall
"TRF" Member
 
daveathall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: Dave
Location: England.
Watch: Various
Posts: 7,305
You should have asked him for a look at his watch, and thrown it straight out of the window, then, calmly took $29 out of your wallet and given it to him, you should then have held your wrist out to him and said "Go ahead punk, make my bank managers day"

__________________
KINDEST REGARDS

DAVE


daveathall is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 01:03 AM   #29
DadsWatch72
Banned
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: USA
Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX
Posts: 2,401
You should have told him, for the money he spent on his watch, he could have bought an extra link for your bracelet (used of course).
DadsWatch72 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 September 2009, 01:07 AM   #30
Rolesor
"TRF" Member
 
Rolesor's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Real Name: Brandon
Location: Toronto, ON
Watch: 116234
Posts: 4,150
You should have asked him what kind of car he drives then just lie and say "mine was 5 grand cheaper than yours, it still gets me from point "A" to point "B".. So I celebrated by buying this watch" lol
Rolesor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Wrist Aficionado

My Watch LLC

WatchesOff5th

DavidSW Watches

Takuya Watches

OCWatches


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.