Bad sign, serial number issue :(

[KenV]

Hi,

We purchased a blue dial 16613 in the fall of 2019 from a dealer in Munich. No box, no papers. It recently had an issue in that you could not move the time forward, only backwards. I took the watch to a local authorized dealer, and they looked at it and said it would be about 800 Euros to repair. I told them to proceed.

I had not heard from them in a few weeks, so I went down to the store. The sales lady looked at the paper work, and then eventually phoned their service department, which I believe is upstairs in the building. They spoke in German for quite awhile. My German is not very good, so I have no idea what they were saying. After the call ended, she said they had to send the watch to Rolex, as they were not allowed to repair it. Rolex said there was an issue with the serial number. This sound ominous :(

The Munich dealer is still in business, and I see they are still active on Chrono24.

'A problem with the serial number', I guess there could be a few scenarios for this; stolen, lost, or parts mismatch. The AD said they will email me once they hear back from Rolex.

If there is an issue, I am hoping the dealer that sold us the watch will help resolve it.

Time will tell the tale.

Ken

[alphadweller]

Schei**.. Sorry to hear OP. I hope you get a satisfactory solution from the dealer.

[Doood]

I hope it gets sorted, OP, and not a stolen watch.

It’s this exact scenario that keeps me from venturing into the preowned market.

[1William]

Keep us posted. Hopeful it is not something that can not be dealt with.

[brandrea]

I’ll be interested to hear what the outcome is.

[Easy Rhino]

Originally Posted by Doood

I hope it gets sorted, OP, and not a stolen watch.

It’s this exact scenario that keeps me from venturing into the preowned market.

Exactly (among other potential problems). I absolutely doubt that all resellers do 100% checks for stolen Rolex serial numbers before reselling watches. This certainly invites the unscrupulous dealer to obtain a watch at a low price and mark it up to average resell values.

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by Doood

I hope it gets sorted, OP, and not a stolen watch.

It’s this exact scenario that keeps me from venturing into the preowned market.

What tends to happen if it is stolen?

[IGY]

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

What tends to happen if it is stolen?

The good news is that you don't have to pay for the service.

The bad news is you don't get a stolen watch that you paid a third party for. So what do you get? The word: "sorry".

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by Neil McCauley

What tends to happen if it is stolen?

If it’s stolen, Rolex will confiscate it and notify both the owner who reported it stolen and the OP. Then the OP will have to seek reimbursement from the seller, as eventuallly the person who reported it stolen will have it returned to him. What I’ve always wondered is if that owner collected an insurance payout, is there another way this plays out, where the OP gets to keep the watch he bought?

Kat


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[Guppydriver]

Originally Posted by Doood

I hope it gets sorted, OP, and not a stolen watch.

It’s this exact scenario that keeps me from venturing into the preowned market.

Me too.

That's why I always wait patiently for a reference from my AD.

[garyk]

Sorry to add but this type of experience is what has always kept me buying only from an AD and as most of us here know, that has been a difficult prospect in recent years!!

I suppose this is what is driving prices on Rolexes “certified pre owned” watches!

[RAB321]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

<snip> What I’ve always wondered is if that owner collected an insurance payout, is there another way this plays out, where the OP gets to keep the watch he bought?

Kat

It then belongs to the insurance company. The OP is still out of luck.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

If it’s stolen, Rolex will confiscate it and notify both the owner who reported it stolen and the OP. Then the OP will have to seek reimbursement from the seller, as eventuallly the person who reported it stolen will have it returned to him. What I’ve always wondered is if that owner collected an insurance payout, is there another way this plays out, where the OP gets to keep the watch he bought?

Kat

That is under US law whereby the original owner remains the legal owner.

Here we have to deal with EU law and the original owner can lose legal ownership quite easily.
Rolex is likely not going to confiscate the watch but may only notify the authorities instead of ending up in a legal battle themselves since they have zero authority to confiscate anything

[Neil McCauley]

Originally Posted by RAB321

It then belongs to the insurance company. The OP is still out of luck.

Originally Posted by KatGirl

If it’s stolen, Rolex will confiscate it and notify both the owner who reported it stolen and the OP. Then the OP will have to seek reimbursement from the seller, as eventuallly the person who reported it stolen will have it returned to him. What I’ve always wondered is if that owner collected an insurance payout, is there another way this plays out, where the OP gets to keep the watch he bought?

Kat


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Originally Posted by IGY

The good news is that you don't have to pay for the service.

The bad news is you don't get a stolen watch that you paid a third party for. So what do you get? The word: "sorry".

Yikes, what a troublesome situation. I hope the OP gets some good news and it's not that.

Sad that this stuff still goes on.

[jimcameron]

Originally Posted by Doood

I hope it gets sorted, OP, and not a stolen watch.

It’s this exact scenario that keeps me from venturing into the preowned market.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Doood

It’s this exact scenario that keeps me from venturing into the preowned market.

Buy with confidence from your Rolex dealer with Certified Pre-Owned, plus they come with factory warranty too

[worldofoyster]

that doesn't sound good, hope OP get his watch back

[Osmin]

Originally Posted by Easy Rhino

I absolutely doubt that all resellers do 100% checks for stolen Rolex serial numbers before reselling watches.

Of course not, as there is no „stolen Rolex Database“ in the web.
Yes, Rolex may have the information and the police.

Btw, in Germany you cannot become legally owner of a stolen good.

OP, do you have some paperwork of the transaction? Receipt of the seller including serial?

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by joli160

That is under US law whereby the original owner remains the legal owner.

Here we have to deal with EU law and the original owner can lose legal ownership quite easily.
Rolex is likely not going to confiscate the watch but may only notify the authorities instead of ending up in a legal battle themselves since they have zero authority to confiscate anything

Actually, very recently, there was a thread where we had a member who had his watch stolen years ago and had reported the serial number to Rolex’s stolen watch registry. When the current owner sent it to RSC for service, it was, indeed, confiscated, and the original owner received a letter from Rolex, about what he needed to do to have it returned to him, as did the current owner, who was also claiming ownership. There were Rolex lawyers involved to resolve the matter. The original owner got his own lawyer, proved ownership and the theft, and ultimately had his watch returned to him. I guess the laws are different in Europe.

Kat


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[KenV]

Originally Posted by Osmin

OP, do you have some paperwork of the transaction? Receipt of the seller including serial?

My wife is very organized, so hopefully she has the documentation. I do not recall checking if the serial number was listed on the receipt. I will check tonight.

Thanks,

Ken

[Osmin]

Maybe you have then some bank statements from the payment or similar.
Good news: I read similar cases in the forums and the buyers usually got their money back. Cross my fingers

So yes, good to buy from a reputable seller instead from a private one

[Blanch]

Originally Posted by joli160

Rolex is likely not going to confiscate the watch but may only notify the authorities instead of ending up in a legal battle themselves since they have zero authority to confiscate anything

If the original owner filed a report with the proper authorities that their watch was stolen, and then subsequently submitted to Rolex the documentation of that police report, sales receipt, etc... Rolex will indeed confiscate the watch and notify their legal department to contact all parties involved, thus clearing Rolex of any liability on distributing an item that has been registered as stolen.

[joli160]

Originally Posted by Blanch

If the original owner filed a report with the proper authorities that their watch was stolen, and then subsequently submitted to Rolex the documentation of that police report, sales receipt, etc... Rolex will indeed confiscate the watch and notify their legal department to contact all parties involved, thus clearing Rolex of any liability on distributing an item that has been registered as stolen.

That’s how it works in the US and how it should be.

In the EU unfortunately it doesn’t work like that.
In my country the original owner who lost his watch through theft has to claim it back within three years after the date of theft. Failure to do so will transfer legal ownership to the one who has it in its possession provided it was acquired in good faith.

[exp90]

Good luck OP, please keep us posted.

[Jackie Daytona]

Hopefully nothing too serious. Interested to see what happens.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

Actually, very recently, there was a thread where we had a member who had his watch stolen years ago and had reported the serial number to Rolex’s stolen watch registry. When the current owner sent it to RSC for service, it was, indeed, confiscated, and the original owner received a letter from Rolex, about what he needed to do to have it returned to him, as did the current owner, who was also claiming ownership. There were Rolex lawyers involved to resolve the matter. The original owner got his own lawyer, proved ownership and the theft, and ultimately had his watch returned to him. I guess the laws are different in Europe.

Kat


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This is exactly correct, Kat. It was probably me as I’ve been banging on about how big a deal papers actually are. Many seem to believe that they’re not necessary and just nice “trinkets” to have. Not so. I also had a watch seized by Rolex. Was the first and only time I ever bought a piece without papers. Never again.

It’s one thing to buy a watch naked knowing the risks, especially if you don’t plan on ever sending it in to Rolex for service. I mean, we all like a deal at the end of the day. But quite honestly, parts go bad on Rolex watches, and you never know if you might need to send your watch in to RSC for proprietary parts that can’t be had otherwise. Then you’re screwed.

OP, I sincerely hope this gets sorted! Good luck.

[77T]

Originally Posted by KenV

We purchased a blue dial 16613 in the fall of 2019 from a dealer in Munich.

Rolex said there was an issue with the serial number. This sound ominous :(

The Munich dealer is still in business, and I see they are still active on Chrono24.

If there is an issue, I am hoping the dealer that sold us the watch will help resolve it.

Time will tell the tale.

Ken

Ken
Much of the convo above has been focused on a stolen watch.

I'm not so sure it is on the Rolex theft report. That's because RSC immediately sends an email to the submitter and to the person who reported the stolen watch.

A "problem with the serial number" could mean the watch is not matching specs that the factory database has in the "as built" record book.

I agree with your hopes - but I'd suggest that everyone who reads this thread, and who buys without papers, to send their newly acquired Rolex to the RSC for a quote on an overhaul.

It's the shortest path to confirming a clean s/n - you either get a quote, or you get an email that RSC is sending the watch to the authorities.


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[77T]

Originally Posted by spot

Strange discussion, very premature to go back and forth about the procedures around stolen watches, on two continents no less, before any facts are available on the issue.

True - we were typing at the same time.


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[Jam219]

Delete

[SSMOKE]

KenV, like most, I really hope that there is not a significant problem with your watch / serial number and that you get your 16613 back soon with a fresh service.

Seems bizarre to me that the local authorized dealer did not contact you within "a few weeks" and that it was only after you inquired, that you learned of the potential problem. That being typed, I have no experience with German Customer Service.

No box / no papers is a gamble for sure. To me anyway.

Following this thread.