Rolex Authentication Franken - London, UK?

[rossyl]

Hi All

I've unfortunately purchased a Rolex that has turned out to be a Franken.

I'm trying to work out my options and part of that involves understanding what is genuine and what is not.

I'm otherwise fine on next steps and have taken legal advice.

I'm looking for recommendations for someone who will be willing to review all parts of the watch and inform me what is genuine and what is not.

I'm in London UK

So if anyone can recommend someone who is knowledgeable and likely to be willing to help, that would be great.

Thanks.

[massabee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=GdECtIHxeWw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHt-mMt6jSM

[Mr. Superlative]

Sorry to hear this news.
In the spirit of sharing, would you enlighten us with some further details and context of how this happened to you? Private Sale? How did you realise it was a fake? Where has the seller disappeared to? Etc.

[Harry-57]

If you are pursuing it legally or looking to get it put back to OEM, a conversation with the RSC in Mayfair might be worth your time.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by rossyl

Hi All

I've unfortunately purchased a Rolex that has turned out to be a Franken.

I'm trying to work out my options and part of that involves understanding what is genuine and what is not.

I'm otherwise fine on next steps and have taken legal advice.

I'm looking for recommendations for someone who will be willing to review all parts of the watch and inform me what is genuine and what is not.

I'm in London UK

So if anyone can recommend someone who is knowledgeable and likely to be willing to help, that would be great.

Thanks.

Please explain what parts on your watch are like you put franken and who told you the parts were franken.

[rossyl]

Guys whilst this is in a legal dispute I can't really put any details on here.

I was concerned that the RSc might confiscate a "fake" so thought I'd avoid that scenario!

Any other recommendations for experts?

Thanks

[omar-rye]

A Franken watch is a timepiece assembled from genuine parts of different references to create a single watch. Is this the case with your watch, or is it a legit Rolex reference that has been fitted with aftermarket parts?

It’s hard to answer your question without knowing more, but if it's a modern piece with aftermarket parts, take it to the Rolex service Center directly or through your local Rolex dealer/boutique, and have them replace those with OEM ones during service. That’ll be your cheapest route. I would do the same even for a vintage watch with non original parts. While the parts will not be age appropriate for a vintage, they will at least be genuine Rolex.

[0nly5iv3Digits]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

A Franken watch is a timepiece assembled from genuine parts of different references to create a single watch. Is this the case with your watch, or is it a legit Rolex reference that has been fitted with aftermarket parts?

It’s hard to answer your question without knowing more, but if it's a modern piece with aftermarket parts, take it to the Rolex service Center directly or through your local Rolex dealer/boutique, and have them replace those with OEM ones during service. That’ll be your cheapest route. I would do the same even for a vintage watch with non original parts. While the parts will not be age appropriate for a vintage, they will at least be genuine Rolex.

What you are referring to is actually called a “genstein”. A “franken” watch is a mish-mash of genuine and fake components.

If the watch is all genuine Rolex, you’ve got little to worry about. That’s your best case scenario. If it is a Frankenstein, hopefully it isn’t comprised of more than 3 fake components (not including the movement).

[996marty]

How did you find out it wasn’t what you thought you had bought? And can you post some photos

[omar-rye]

Originally Posted by 0nly5iv3Digits

What you are referring to is actually called a “genstein”. A “franken” watch is a mish-mash of genuine and fake components.

If the watch is all genuine Rolex, you’ve got little to worry about. That’s your best case scenario. If it is a Frankenstein, hopefully it isn’t comprised of more than 3 fake components (not including the movement).

This is the first time I’m hearing the term “genstein”. I’ve always understood a Franken watch to be a watch assembled using parts from two or more different watches, while genuine watches with aftermarket parts are referred to as modded watches. And then there are replicas or fake watches that might have been modified with a few genuine parts, usually to deceive a purchaser. These are just plain old replicas, and yes, Rolex will confiscate them and throw them in the dumpster. If you have one of those, cut your losses and don't try to make the fake watch genuine. If you purchased, for example, an OP Celebration and just found out it was originally a black dial OP with an aftermarket Celebration dial fitted, then have the RSC fit a genuine dial on it.

[rootbeer7]

There’s a big difference between a new piece or new reference piece and a vintage piece that may have been put together over many years and owners.
Vintage will need a more specialist eye as even experts get it wrong.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by rossyl

Guys whilst this is in a legal dispute I can't really put any details on here.




Thanks

sure you can, what "law" says otherwise?

Your seeking expertise is worthless without facts and information.

[Zach69SS]

I don’t know the laws in the UK, with litigation what Is allowed to post online. It’s hard to give an opinion without seeing the problem. What do you think is Frankenstein, case , bracelet, or dial. Everything?

The best way is to open the case and check the movement, which is also the most expensive part to replace, the dial and hands can be replaced by RSC to original and they will check everything else.

How close are you to Hatton Gardens there are a few good watchmakers there.

Let us know what you think is wrong? TRF members have allot knowledge.

Sorry to hear about your situation, best of luck.

[CarlOver]

Originally Posted by omar-rye

A Franken watch is a timepiece assembled from genuine parts of different references to create a single watch. Is this the case with your watch, or is it a legit Rolex reference that has been fitted with aftermarket parts?

It’s hard to answer your question without knowing more, but if it's a modern piece with aftermarket parts, take it to the Rolex service Center directly or through your local Rolex dealer/boutique, and have them replace those with OEM ones during service. That’ll be your cheapest route. I would do the same even for a vintage watch with non original parts. While the parts will not be age appropriate for a vintage, they will at least be genuine Rolex.

I think the above reflects the understanding that many would agree with.

[rossyl]

Originally Posted by Zach69SS

I don’t know the laws in the UK, with litigation what Is allowed to post online. It’s hard to give an opinion without seeing the problem. What do you think is Frankenstein, case , bracelet, or dial. Everything?

The best way is to open the case and check the movement, which is also the most expensive part to replace, the dial and hands can be replaced by RSC to original and they will check everything else.

How close are you to Hatton Gardens there are a few good watchmakers there.

Let us know what you think is wrong? TRF members have allot knowledge.

Sorry to hear about your situation, best of luck.

Thank you. Any recommendations of someone in Hatton Garden who might be able to help?

Thank you.

[Number3]

Have a chat with Steven Hale in Mayfair. They are a fully accredited service centre and have a parts account but aren’t bound by the silly ‘RSC rules’. They’ve happily worked on a Franken/modded watch for me more than once. Also a bit cheaper…

https://www.shwr.co.uk/

[Jonny8]

It would be helpful if you could post some details. You don’t have to compromise any legal dispute, although I fail to see how you would anyway.

What model and year?
How do you know it has non genuine /original parts?
What are the non genuine/original parts?
Private sale?

This information (atleast this) would be both helpful and interesting to others and also aid them in helping!

[996marty]

Originally Posted by Jonny8

It would be helpful if you could post some details. You don’t have to compromise any legal dispute, although I fail to see how you would anyway.

What model and year?
How do you know it has non genuine /original parts?
What are the non genuine/original parts?
Private sale?

This information (atleast this) would be both helpful and interesting to others and also aid them in helping!

It looks like the op doesn’t want to give up any information as I asked a similar question earlier and like you I think they are valid questions if you are looking for advice

[rossyl]

Originally Posted by Number3

Have a chat with Steven Hale in Mayfair. They are a fully accredited service centre and have a parts account but aren’t bound by the silly ‘RSC rules’. They’ve happily worked on a Franken/modded watch for me more than once. Also a bit cheaper…

Many thanks for the suggestion.

As mentioned, I think I've set the point of this thread out very clearly, I appreciate that others, for purely the sake of their own curiosity, want more detail, but, that is purely for your own curiosity, I don't see how it would benefit me getting the expert advice that I require. Instead it would just end up as probably a fairly negative dissection of a watch.

Everyone has an opinion, and that's fine. We're all entitled to them.

[Jonny8]

Originally Posted by 996marty

It looks like the op doesn’t want to give up any information as I asked a similar question earlier and like you I think they are valid questions if you are looking for advice

Yeah, seems strange to me but obviously don’t know the circumstances.

I would be interested how he found out, etc as I really like some of the older stuff and am far from being an expert.

[Stan Cooper]

Just guessing here, but to me it sounds like the OP probably took it to a Rolex Service Center, and they refused to service it because it has unspecified non-genuine parts. He's just trying to find out what parts in his watch aren't genuine OEM so he can replace them with genuine ones.

[996marty]

Originally Posted by Stan Cooper

Just guessing here, but to me it sounds like the OP probably took it to a Rolex Service Center, and they refused to service it because it has unspecified non-genuine parts. He's just trying to find out what parts in his watch aren't genuine OEM so he can replace them with genuine ones.

He said earlier he didn’t want to risk it getting confiscated as a fake at an RSC so clearly he’s not been to one

[KatGirl]

Originally Posted by rossyl

Hi All

I've unfortunately purchased a Rolex that has turned out to be a Franken.

I'm trying to work out my options and part of that involves understanding what is genuine and what is not.

I'm otherwise fine on next steps and have taken legal advice.

I'm looking for recommendations for someone who will be willing to review all parts of the watch and inform me what is genuine and what is not.

I'm in London UK

So if anyone can recommend someone who is knowledgeable and likely to be willing to help, that would be great.

Thanks.

You should have sought this advice BEFORE the purchase. Always buy the seller! Good luck straightening this mess out.

Kat


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[Mr. Superlative]

Originally Posted by rossyl

Many thanks for the suggestion.

As mentioned, I think I've set the point of this thread out very clearly, I appreciate that others, for purely the sake of their own curiosity, want more detail, but, that is purely for your own curiosity, I don't see how it would benefit me getting the expert advice that I require. Instead it would just end up as probably a fairly negative dissection of a watch.

Everyone has an opinion, and that's fine. We're all entitled to them.

You’ve asked for very specific advice on a Rolex watch forum; the more details you share, the better the advice you will receive. If the discussion becomes negative, you have to accept & own that, continuing to seek out the expertise you need, separating those from opinion.

Furthermore, sharing your experience will likely help others avoid whatever mistakes have been made. Being cryptic doesn’t help anyone. Best of luck with resolution.

[Mr. Superlative]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

You should have sought this advice BEFORE the purchase. Always buy the seller! Good luck straightening this mess out.

Kat


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Exactly. This isn’t limited to just watches.

[Zach69SS]

Op, I can’t remember the shops name in Hatton Gardens, sorry , I was on vacation and had an issue with my clasp, there were several watchmakers that work on Rolex and do authentications, service. I spoke with a very nice chap that was brilliant, he did the repair on the spot and even cleaned the watch while I waited. They even gave me the old parts , pins back in the Rolex plastic pill type package. Showing me what was used for the repair. I did not even ask for that.

I would call a few of them in Hatton Gardens and ask for what you need done.
Check the online reviews google etc…

Best of luck, mate

[drrd]

Originally Posted by rossyl

Many thanks for the suggestion.

As mentioned, I think I've set the point of this thread out very clearly, I appreciate that others, for purely the sake of their own curiosity, want more detail, but, that is purely for your own curiosity, I don't see how it would benefit me getting the expert advice that I require. Instead it would just end up as probably a fairly negative dissection of a watch.

Everyone has an opinion, and that's fine. We're all entitled to them.

I think it’s fair to keep the details to yourself, as you wish.

My thoughts are that RSC would be a good first step.

I’ve obviously heard of RSC confiscating stolen watches. I haven’t heard of them confiscating ‘fake’ watches, only refusing to work on them.

The problem (I’m guessing) is that RSC probably won’t give a detailed statement on why the watch fails to meet their standards. You may already have been to a RSC and been refused service.

I imagine some examination of the watch has already happened and flagged concerns and you now need a detailed statement on the watch to back the claim with the seller.

Hopefully someone here has some ideas.

[rootbeer7]

RSC will only keep a stolen watch.

[Harry-57]

Originally Posted by rossyl

As mentioned, I think I've set the point of this thread out very clearly, I appreciate that others, for purely the sake of their own curiosity, want more detail, but, that is purely for your own curiosity, I don't see how it would benefit me getting the expert advice that I require.

It's a discussion forum. This is an interesting topic and could well serve as useful to some of the participants. I understand your being guarded about a legal matter but your response strikes me as disingenuous.

Still, you've got your recommendation so there's no longer a need to tell us all to mind our own business.

[shammad10]

Originally Posted by KatGirl

You should have sought this advice BEFORE the purchase. Always buy the seller! Good luck straightening this mess out.

Kat


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What's the point of this post? Absolutely nothing of use there other than to beat a man while he's down.

Anyway- go to Stefano at fathom watches near St Pauls in London, he's very knowledgable and will be able to tell you what is correct to the watch and what isn't.