Rolex patent marks the end of flipping?

[SamArj]

https://youtu.be/eMPMzFlb1sk?si=5l4fOOqudi0YKNFG


If this is true then the AD will know when the watch has been flipped ie when the new owner requests to be registered on the database.

[Calatrava r]

Anytime a secondary owner interacts with Rolex they know the watch has changed owners. Most people believe Rolex is more concerned with the pieces which gain value on the used market over the pieces which lose value. When Rolex is asked to authenticate a new Daytona, the rep will probably be in touch with the selling AD.

[116510lv]

Rolex don't care if your watch is sold.

Ad's care.

Rolex are a charity who make timepieces and are only interested in one thing.... To make money.

They don't care about keeping people safe, the grey market etc.

Sent from my SM-S918B using Tapatalk

[SamArj]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

Anytime a secondary owner interacts with Rolex they know the watch has changed owners. Most people believe Rolex is more concerned with the pieces which gain value on the used market over the pieces which lose value. When Rolex is asked to authenticate a new Daytona, the rep will probably be in touch with the selling AD.

Yes but usually the second owner only presents to the AD when there is a fault or it needs a service, ie 5+ years in the future.
With this new proposal lets say I get a watch from the AD today. Tomorrow I flip it to a grey dealer who sells to a new client. The new client wants his name registered against the watch and contacts Rolex. At that point it becomes apparent that I flipped the watch within 24/48 hours of purchasing it.

That's why I'm saying that if this new system comes to pass then the days of serial flipping are thankfully over.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by SamArj

Yes but usually the second owner only presents to the AD when there is a fault or it needs a service, ie 5+ years in the future.
With this new proposal lets say I get a watch from the AD today. Tomorrow I flip it to a grey dealer who sells to a new client. The new client wants his name registered against the watch and contacts Rolex. At that point it becomes apparent that I flipped the watch within 24/48 hours of purchasing it.

That's why I'm saying that if this new system comes to pass then the days of serial flipping are thankfully over.

AP has registered watches to their owners for years, and one can still get any hot model on the grey market. If demand is strong enough/premium high enough, some will accept burning bridges with their boutique, others will look for a "safe sale".

[1William]

I don't think this will have the impact some think it might. Rolex is in the wholesale watch business and does not care about the sales as long as the sales do not impact the value or image of the brand. AD's might be another story but they know who is selling/trading/flipping typically from the get go. If an average customer is allocated a watch, not a Daytona/BLRO/BLNR or such, and then sales or flips it they do not care as they are just happy to move another DJ/AK/OP etc. Sell or flip one of the other watches and some AD's act like you have committed treason. But as a buyer how many allocations are you going to get for hot watches and what is your spend total to get there? In the end, it is about money. I know several Whales who spend in excess of 500k a year on watches and they continue to get desirable watches across several desirable brands and they sell or trade most of them. AD's response, ok, thanks for the money. The Game of flipping will not be over, it will just change.

[Oxfordian]

Originally Posted by SamArj

Yes but usually the second owner only presents to the AD when there is a fault or it needs a service, ie 5+ years in the future.
With this new proposal lets say I get a watch from the AD today. Tomorrow I flip it to a grey dealer who sells to a new client. The new client wants his name registered against the watch and contacts Rolex. At that point it becomes apparent that I flipped the watch within 24/48 hours of purchasing it.

That's why I'm saying that if this new system comes to pass then the days of serial flipping are thankfully over.

Its your property you can do what you like with it once you have bought the watch, if you can get 'hot' watches out of the AD on a regular basis and want to sell each and every one within 48 hours of picking it up then good luck to you.

Nothing Rolex does can stop you from doing this, its your property.

Having said that I don't like flippers and won't buy from a grey dealer just to get the latest stupidly named hot watch.

[Kingcobb]

I seriously doubt the idea that ADs actually care if you flip a watch. They got their commission, you bought a watch you didn't really want, made some money, and upped your spend. Everyone is happy except the people who would've actually liked to buy that watch. Rolex isn't going to tell your AD someone flipped it and your AD isn't going to have access to the database to check it every morning to see who is flipping watches.....

[Kevin of Larchmont]

So Rolex just gave themselves a new job policing the after sales of their watches? Nah…

The key qualifier in Vinny’s video was, “ …in my opinion.”

[ltmgeller]

Rolex cares and AD's care. Rolex monitors flipping and use the info to pull AD status. AD's monitor so they don't lose AD status.

[kopi-c]

Originally Posted by ltmgeller

Rolex cares and AD's care. Rolex monitors flipping and use the info to pull AD status. AD's monitor so they don't lose AD status.

Doubt that Rolex would care about flippers. Both Rolex and the AD if really care enough, would have come up with a method or policy to end the flippers a long time ago.

[SamArj]

Originally Posted by Oxfordian

Its your property you can do what you like with it once you have bought the watch, if you can get 'hot' watches out of the AD on a regular basis and want to sell each and every one within 48 hours of picking it up then good luck to you.

Nothing Rolex does can stop you from doing this, its your property.

Having said that I don't like flippers and won't bu
from a grey dealer just to get the latest stupidly named hot watch.

What are you talking about? Of course they can stop you flipping, the AD will blacklist you and won't sell you another Rolex. You can't flip what you can't buy.
My AD is very clear, sell a hot watch within two years and he won't sell me another Rolex.
I'm ok with that.

[SamArj]

Originally Posted by kopi-c

Doubt that Rolex would care about flippers. Both Rolex and the AD if really care enough, would have come up with a method or policy to end the flippers a long time ago.

They've come out with it now though.
Their primary goal probably isn't to stop flippers per se, they want to make more money by controlling the resale market. The byproduct will be that flipping will become a lot more difficult

[joli160]

Rolex really doesn’t care.
Very obvious since they removed the buyers name from the recent upgraded warranty card.

They cannot be anything other than very happy with the market as it including the flipping business and AD’s offloading their less popular models to resellers.
Brand is stronger than ever, demand is huge and everything they make gets sold.
Absolutely zero incentive for Rolex to change anything at all.

[Harry-57]

On which planet are the legal owners of luxury goods not allowed to sell them?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by joli160

Rolex really doesn’t care.
Very obvious since they removed the buyers name from the recent upgraded warranty card.

They cannot be anything other than very happy with the market as it including the flipping business and AD’s offloading their less popular models to resellers.
Brand is stronger than ever, demand is huge and everything they make gets sold.
Absolutely zero incentive for Rolex to change anything at all.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

On which planet are the legal owners of luxury goods not allowed to sell them?

Pluto, but everyone knows it's a Mickey Mouse planet.

Uranus is pretty open to just about anything, tho I prefer Mars (even tho they need women).

[SLWoodster]

I think it will depend on the market at that time.

This anti-flipping Or anti-grey dealer thing Only came about like 2019 and will gradually fade as demand meets supply.

If they really wanted to stop this, all they need to do is go to c24 or 47th St. Buy up hundreds of new inventory from these gray dealers. Check their serial on where they came from. Punish the dealers and blacklist buyers. Redistribute watches through their CPO program at Bucherer. Then, publicize through all online channels what they have done to bust the dealers. The overall cost of this is little to none because they will still have a margin between the 47th St. price and their own CPO prices.

Originally Posted by SamArj

https://youtu.be/eMPMzFlb1sk?si=5l4fOOqudi0YKNFG


If this is true then the AD will know when the watch has been flipped ie when the new owner requests to be registered on the database.

[SamArj]

Originally Posted by Harry-57

On which planet are the legal owners of luxury goods not allowed to sell them?

No planet that I have been to or plan to visit.

Of course you can sell whatever you own. It's immediately flipping every hot watch you are allocated is what I am referring to. My AD would blacklist anyone who did that and they wouldn't get another allocation.

But we all know this, so why the confusion?

[VictorGMT]

Originally Posted by kopi-c

Doubt that Rolex would care about flippers. Both Rolex and the AD if really care enough, would have come up with a method or policy to end the flippers a long time ago.

I have an idea. Match production to demand.

That would end it, however, the fear is that getting "the watch" would no longer be special, and demand could drop below production. Could be a race to the bottom.

As it is, anyone can get any model they want and can afford at Market Clearing Price. MCP is the most important fact, MSRP is a fiction. Rolex could not care less what I can and will pay as long as someone can and will pay the market clearing price.

[Kingcobb]

Originally Posted by SamArj

What are you talking about? Of course they can stop you flipping, the AD will blacklist you and won't sell you another Rolex. You can't flip what you can't buy.
My AD is very clear, sell a hot watch within two years and he won't sell me another Rolex.
I'm ok with that.

ADs are dependent on flippers. They force people to buy watches that don't sell well in order to get in demand watches.

ADs will go under in mass if they stop flippers.

Either that or Rolex will have to vastly change their sales model.

People aren't going to buy all these much less popular watches they don't want if they can't sell them.

Flippers exist because rolex makes way more day dates and date justs and precious metal watches then the public wants.

If they were serious about eliminating flipping, hint they aren't, they would reduce production of all these watches the ADs push people to buy to build a spend history to get the watches they want, and increase production of the high demand watches that people are trying to get.

But that doesn't fit rolexs business model. Rolex loves off exclusivity and being hard to get. Eliminating flipping would kill their business model.

[GMTmatt]

Originally Posted by ltmgeller

Rolex cares and AD's care. Rolex monitors flipping and use the info to pull AD status. AD's monitor so they don't lose AD status.

This is what my AD lead me to believe as well.

[Barada7]

I suspect Rolex would prefer the end user receive the watch at the outset. They’ve been in business a long time and I believe have every intention of retaining their long term viability. Short term profits are nice, but not at the cost of sustained interest in the brand. Flipping and the perception that it’s part of the Rolex “game” harms the brand more than it helps over the long term.

[Kingcobb]

Originally Posted by SamArj

No planet that I have been to or plan to visit.

Of course you can sell whatever you own. It's immediately flipping every hot watch you are allocated is what I am referring to. My AD would blacklist anyone who did that and they wouldn't get another allocation.

But we all know this, so why the confusion?

Hint they already know people are going to flip the watch the moment an AD tells a person that if they want to get a submariner or a stainless daytona they will first have to buy this DJ that you have already said you have no interest in.

ADs and their commission live off people flipping watches. 90% of people aren't going to buy a watch they don't want if they aren't allowed to immediately sell it and recoup some of the cost.

[ocb]

High secondary market prices drive retail demand and indicate brand prestige, exactly what luxury brands desire.

[Mystro]

Rolex doesn’t care about their AD’s. Some AD’s like to puff up their chest to suggest they have some kind of inside power but it’s all nonsense. Rolex is in the business to sell watches and have zero loyalty to any of their AD’s. Rolex will pull a AD’s status just because they don’t like their location or any number of reasons. The idea any AD tries to impose arbitrary rules over their customer is laughable as any AD is expendable.

[SLWoodster]

I disagree. Rolex is over 100 years old. Only two watches have consistently been more difficult to get since 1990’s - white stainless and black stainless Daytona.

Only starting in 2019ish is when more models than those two specific SKUs out of their over 800 permutations of models materials bracelets bezels became more difficult. This is aside from the truly exclusive gem sets.

Rolex doesn’t need to live on this business model. ADs don’t either. But if they’ve gotten used to the fat revenues from bundling and losing their license will completely destroy their business then yes.

Originally Posted by Kingcobb

ADs are dependent on flippers. They force people to buy watches that don't sell well in order to get in demand watches.

ADs will go under in mass if they stop flippers.

Either that or Rolex will have to vastly change their sales model.

People aren't going to buy all these much less popular watches they don't want if they can't sell them.

Flippers exist because rolex makes way more day dates and date justs and precious metal watches then the public wants.

If they were serious about eliminating flipping, hint they aren't, they would reduce production of all these watches the ADs push people to buy to build a spend history to get the watches they want, and increase production of the high demand watches that people are trying to get.

But that doesn't fit rolexs business model. Rolex loves off exclusivity and being hard to get. Eliminating flipping would kill their business model.

[Maleg]

Originally Posted by Kingcobb

ADs are dependent on flippers. They force people to buy watches that don't sell well in order to get in demand watches.

ADs will go under in mass if they stop flippers.

Either that or Rolex will have to vastly change their sales model.

People aren't going to buy all these much less popular watches they don't want if they can't sell them.

Flippers exist because rolex makes way more day dates and date justs and precious metal watches then the public wants.

If they were serious about eliminating flipping, hint they aren't, they would reduce production of all these watches the ADs push people to buy to build a spend history to get the watches they want, and increase production of the high demand watches that people are trying to get.

But that doesn't fit rolexs business model. Rolex loves off exclusivity and being hard to get. Eliminating flipping would kill their business model.

Agree.

Flippers keep AD's in the black. Without flippers the showcase queens would languish on display forever, the AD's paying floorage on watches Rolex forces them to sell, but no one wants to buy.

Rolex can't survive without AD's and AD's can't survive without flippers. It's a symbiotic relationship that everyone wants to complain about, but no one wants to eliminate.

[Kingcobb]

Originally Posted by SLWoodster

I disagree. Rolex is over 100 years old. Only two watches have consistently been more difficult to get since 1990’s - white stainless and black stainless Daytona.

Only starting in 2019ish is when more models than those two specific SKUs out of their over 800 permutations of models materials bracelets bezels became more difficult. This is aside from the truly exclusive gem sets.

Rolex doesn’t need to live on this business model. ADs don’t either. But if they’ve gotten used to the fat revenues from bundling and losing their license will completely destroy their business then yes.

I'm not talking historically, I am talking in the current market. Historically people weren't being asked to have a spend history to get a submariner either.

Rolex artificially inflated demand by cutting production of desirable watches and then told the ADs if they want the desirable watches they need to push and sell more of the less desirable but higher profit watches, and so it goes. If Rolex wants to go back to the pre 19 business model they certainly can, but none of their actions seem to indicate such a desire.

If this happens it will only be because Rolex wants to push people into the inflated CPO program, which is the very reason no one can check serial numbers to see if a watch is stolen. Rolex likes the "only safe way to buy is from an AD".

[subtona]

“End of flipping”

No