ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX
3 October 2009, 11:50 PM | #1 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Real Name: Harlan
Location: Auckland, NZL
Watch: Seiko
Posts: 117
|
Rolex Seconds Hand, is it a 'Sweep Seconds' or not????
Another 'please don't start chambering your weapons people' post
Sitting here watching 2 watches 'keeping time', an Oyster Perpetual & a Seiko Spring Drive. The Oyster's second hand is not ticking like a quartz but even at 28'800BPH the balance's beat makes the second hand kind of jerky in its travel. The Spring Drive Seconds Hand is following time with no perceptible beat error – I assume it’s showing the time… the ‘actual time’. The more I watch the Seiko’s Seconds Hand the more the 3135 appears to be accelerating and decelerating during its travels round.....or is this all just the liquor Anyway, my question is this, does the 3135 only show the actual true time twice per second and, is it fair to term the Rolex Seconds Hand a 'Sweep Seconds' hand?
__________________
Last edited by harlansmart; 4 October 2009 at 12:45 AM.. Reason: Spelling and Grammar plus added Beta |
4 October 2009, 12:06 AM | #2 |
Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SoCal OC U.S.A.
Posts: 342
|
If your Rolex is otherwise keeping accurate time, then your second hand is also keeping accurate time.
As with many other things, some people are more sensitive to and perceive the 8 bps movement of the second hand more than others. Also, comparing your Rolex to a Seiko spring drive will show this movement even more. The spring drive is simply a brilliant mechanical movement and the second hand truly does sweep. The quality and the movement in those watches should be a definite wake-up call to other manufacturers. Of course, if you are really spending so much time watching second hands, sweep, liquor could be an explanation. Mark |
4 October 2009, 01:05 AM | #3 |
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 43,514
|
Based on your observations, it really is a leap to assume that either movement is displaying "actual time" at any given instance in time... The spring drive is a pretty cool invention though.. However: The spring drive uses a mainspring to power an electrical generator... that generator turns a control wheel (glide wheel) that then rotates at exactly 8 times per second... When the electrical power gets transferred to the mechanically linked movement hands, it is still the same 8 times per second as the Rolex, but it is from motion that is in a single direction (the rotating glide wheel). This gives a visible representation of smoothness, even though it is "pulsed" the exact same 8 times per second as the Rolex. The Rolex gets it's power from the same mainspring essentially, but it goes through an oscillating, mechanical, timing source - the hairspring, and then the pallet locks and unlocks it's control wheel (escapement) 8 times per second... and you can visibly "see" the lock and unlock timing at the second hand... (and count it's action to get your timing criteria) Both movements are pretty amazing in what they do........ but I don't think that you can draw any "actual time" inferences from watching the second hand on either........
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member |
4 October 2009, 01:37 AM | #4 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 19,706
|
Is it just me who is in awe of Larry??? Well done!
Thanks for that explanation to an interesting OP |
4 October 2009, 02:51 AM | #5 |
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Real Name: Dennis
Location: Vancouver, BC
Watch: SS Daytona - White
Posts: 99
|
I'm in awe too!
Thanks Larry! |
4 October 2009, 04:15 AM | #6 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: John
Location: Washington
Watch: 16710, 16610, DJ
Posts: 7,329
|
|
4 October 2009, 04:18 AM | #7 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: John
Location: Washington
Watch: 16710, 16610, DJ
Posts: 7,329
|
Quote:
Really, all quality mechanical movements can be characterized as "brilliant mechanical movements," if only for the engineering alone. The Seiko is innovative and interesting, but it remains to be seen if it will catch on or not. Just my opinion. |
|
4 October 2009, 10:53 AM | #8 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Real Name: Harlan
Location: Auckland, NZL
Watch: Seiko
Posts: 117
|
So - the 3135 does in fact only display time briefly 120 times per minute then and the Seiko all the time.
As an aside, this 3135 runs +3s per day while the Seiko has returned +3s over 11 Mths so around 300 times better accuracy has been achieved by the humble Seiko. From my point of view - absolutely
__________________
Last edited by harlansmart; 4 October 2009 at 10:56 AM.. Reason: Grammar as per usual |
4 October 2009, 07:39 PM | #9 | |
"TRF" Life Patron
Join Date: Jun 2005
Real Name: Peter
Location: Llanfairpwllgwyng
Watch: ing you.
Posts: 53,063
|
Quote:
__________________
ICom Pro3 All posts are my own opinion and my opinion only. "The clock of life is wound but once, and no man has the power to tell just when the hands will stop. Now is the only time you actually own the time, Place no faith in time, for the clock may soon be still for ever." Good Judgement comes from experience,experience comes from Bad Judgement,.Buy quality, cry once; buy cheap, cry again and again. www.mc0yad.club Second in command CEO and left handed watch winder |
|
4 October 2009, 07:51 PM | #10 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Real Name: Harlan
Location: Auckland, NZL
Watch: Seiko
Posts: 117
|
To time my 100% purely mechanical pieces I have to use my timer.... so the purely mechanical movement which rarely displays the real time needs the electronic timer.
Why don't we all biff our timers into the bin and make tiny ones like Seiko did and place them into our watches? My Rolex may appear mechanical but oh boy does it need my timer periodically Look - there are 2 side here, and I love my Rolex and wind-ups etc..... but the Sweep from the 'hybrid' is unreal, superbe.... its pure and honest - it even tells the actual time. Oh no.... a l c o m o h o l again Quote:
__________________
|
|
4 October 2009, 08:26 PM | #11 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Real Name: Bill Hart
Location: Richmond, NY, UK
Watch: Rlx=3, Tdr=3, Om=3
Posts: 3,053
|
When someone aks you the time, do you (and before you jump on me I do not mean the OP specifically, I mean anyone in general) glance at your watch and say it's "10:46, 32 seconds and a midge's chuff" because by the time you've got the words out the "real" time will have changed significantly.....or do you say "it's just after quarter to 11"?
Why are folk so obsessed with fractions of seconds on a watch that is meant to tell the time?....... They are absolute marvels of engineering, no two ways about it.....but just use it for what it was designed for....telling the time....then you will never expect too much... Sorry JMHO but these accuracy threads (and bracelet "stretch" threads for that matter) really do my head in....sorry, but I am sure I am not the only one...I am having a bad day.....maybe
__________________
Bill "There's only three kinds of people in this world....those that can count....and those that can't" TRF's "JJ's" Bar & NightClub Patron |
4 October 2009, 09:29 PM | #12 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 788
|
Quote:
I wish the OP good luck, with his watch that rarely tells the actual time. |
|
4 October 2009, 10:08 PM | #13 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Real Name: Harlan
Location: Auckland, NZL
Watch: Seiko
Posts: 117
|
Ok - I have been looking for some pics of my Mexico (Colnago) but what the heck is the point of a watch that can't tell the time?
__________________
|
4 October 2009, 10:15 PM | #14 | |||
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 788
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
|||
4 October 2009, 10:19 PM | #15 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Real Name: Bill Hart
Location: Richmond, NY, UK
Watch: Rlx=3, Tdr=3, Om=3
Posts: 3,053
|
Thanks for backing me up......today isn't turning out as bad as I thought.....at least one person shares my simplistic point of view....I assume there are many more of us.....it brings to mind the statement "the only watch which is truly accurate is one which has in fact stopped, it tells true atomic time twice a day"....'nuff said...and thanks again
__________________
Bill "There's only three kinds of people in this world....those that can count....and those that can't" TRF's "JJ's" Bar & NightClub Patron |
4 October 2009, 10:23 PM | #16 |
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Leo
Location: Boca Raton
Posts: 13,820
|
I'm sorry but i don't understand the question?
What is a second hand? |
4 October 2009, 10:35 PM | #17 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Apr 2009
Real Name: Bill Hart
Location: Richmond, NY, UK
Watch: Rlx=3, Tdr=3, Om=3
Posts: 3,053
|
Nice one Leo!......class....ha ha ha...now, can you tell me when does that beautiful watch of your tell "actual time".....brilliant....
__________________
Bill "There's only three kinds of people in this world....those that can count....and those that can't" TRF's "JJ's" Bar & NightClub Patron |
4 October 2009, 11:39 PM | #18 | |
Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Warren
Location: Arizona
Watch: Air King
Posts: 205
|
Quote:
Seems like that same mentality freaks out over a little water on a 300m dive watch or the slightest little blemish on the clasp. I'll bet they'd have a stroke if they saw where my Air King goes with me on a daily basis (I am a field instrumentation tech for a huge copper mine).....no abuse, but no pampering either. Even in my high tech, accuracy driven world, fractions of a second are academic...not practical. JMHO |
|
4 October 2009, 11:42 PM | #19 |
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2008
Real Name: Leo
Location: Boca Raton
Posts: 13,820
|
|
5 October 2009, 12:39 AM | #20 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,834
|
Comparing the spring drive and quartz to a purely mechanical movement??? Tools, thanks for the great explanation (although the poster could have gone to the Seiko web site , read about the drive and ....spared us this thread! (LOL) Actually, it was good reading anyway.
Now, please excuse me, I have to go synch my Rolex with the atomic clock. |
5 October 2009, 01:53 AM | #21 |
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Real Name: John
Location: River City Ky
Watch: none anymore
Posts: 249
|
I always heard "sweep" second hand referred to that fact that the second hand swept over the entire dial as opposed to having a separate dial. Not whether it jumps a second . And if your watch loses a sec a day does that mean in 12 hrs it loses half a sec? Do you take that into account if accuracy is that important to you?
|
5 October 2009, 01:55 AM | #22 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,937
|
Quote:
Based on your explaination it sounds like the Seiko sounds like a mini-electrical engine. Is that semi-accurate? |
|
5 October 2009, 02:00 AM | #23 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,937
|
Quote:
I happen to think that what Seiko is doing with Grand Seiko and Sping Drive is innovative from a technology perspective. But for some reason it strikes me as very sterile. Not sure why. The Seiko divers I have had for years have some character and I love 'em. But I do appreciate advancement. |
|
5 October 2009, 02:01 AM | #24 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
Real Name: Rye
Location: Japan
Watch: Sundial
Posts: 2,156
|
That made me smile
__________________
'The Way of a Warrior is based on humanity, love, and sincerity; the heart of martial valor is true bravery, wisdom, love, and friendship. Emphasis on the physical aspects of warriorship is futile, for the power of the body is always limited'- Morihei Ueshiba - Omega 3570.50 (77mil) Rolex 16610 (V) Rolex 1601 (1966) Seiko BM
|
5 October 2009, 02:18 AM | #25 |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: John
Location: Washington
Watch: 16710, 16610, DJ
Posts: 7,329
|
|
5 October 2009, 02:19 AM | #26 | |
TRF Moderator & 2024 SubLV41 Patron
Join Date: May 2007
Real Name: Larry
Location: Mojave Desert
Watch: GMT's
Posts: 43,514
|
Quote:
It uses the mechanical power of the mainspring to run a mini-generator that supplies the electricity to run the watch as a small motor... The mainspring can run this generator for ~72 hours from a full wind... but it uses the typical auto-wind rotor to keep it wound all the time. This is as opposed to a quartz that uses a quartz crystal and battery to "time" an electrical pulse that triggers a mechanical "jump" of the second hand every second.. The quartz crystal actually vibrates a known number of times per second, and the circuitry "counts" those vibrations, but because the watch must run completely on the battery, it only triggers it at one second intervals... otherwise you would need to change the battery every few days... the Seiko eliminates this quartz crystal, and the battery, and also sacrifices the accuracy of quartz.. (remember..the glide wheel only rotates at 8 times per second.. the quartz vibrates at 8,000 times per second..)
__________________
(Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member |
|
5 October 2009, 03:17 PM | #27 | |
"TRF" Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Real Name: Harlan
Location: Auckland, NZL
Watch: Seiko
Posts: 117
|
Wow - is this correct everyone??
I am learning heaps here very much! Quote:
__________________
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|
*Banners
Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.