Royal Oaks under retail?

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by vakman

Lets hope it gets back to normal by the end of this year. If i have to wine and dine and kiss ass i prefer to end up in a hotel with a good looking blonde. Not for a watch.

Haha ain’t that the truth!

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

I think (or at least hope) Royal Oaks will go back to under retail, with the exception of "hot" models like Jumbo, openworked, and ceramic.

I think Rolex will soon be the same too with perhaps only the Daytona trading above retail (like it always has been). basic subs, GMTs, PMs, should all be at or below retail soon.

This means some of the watches I've personally purchased will be under water, but who cares? I wasn't planning to sell. as long as it's not losing 25-33% as soon as you walk out the door, I think most of us will be fine even if we lose 5-10% immediately. and if you are in it for the long run, some of the "hotter" pieces will offset any paper losses from other pieces so as a "collection" or "portfolio" you will still be at your cost basis in the long run or slightly ahead.

Originally Posted by vakman

indeed i prefer to lose 10 a 15 procent on a watch and be able to buy what i want.

Agree, that’s a true enthusiast mentality (access at the price of mild depreciation). I’m totally fine with, and much rather prefer 2016-2019 economics as opposed to what happened during COVID.

Agree that the “hype” models will mostly trade at/below retail upon stabilization. Really curious when that actually occurs (by EOY would be my guess).

[Vince_76]

Mint fullset 15500 bid up to 27k and didn’t even meet reserve. That’s below MSRP+tax - with no pricing support, I think you’ll start seeing these trade below retail very soon.

[hl0m4n]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

Mint fullset 15500 bid up to 27k and didn’t even meet reserve. That’s below MSRP+tax - with no pricing support, I think you’ll start seeing these trade below retail very soon.

hey vince, what are you seeing for 26240ST blue and black dials new going for? thank you.

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by hl0m4n

hey vince, what are you seeing for 26240ST blue and black dials new going for? thank you.

Black - stickered unsized 50th is sitting for 52k. Another mint condition non 50th sitting for 49k.

Blue - fullset 50th sitting at 57. Another 50th for 55k

[NTCP8]

Some ROs are under retail here in HK:
26715ST, grey dial: retails at 281HKD, got one offered from a well known grey dealer for 261k HKD
15510ST black dial: retails at 215k HKD, grey 210k HKD
ROO Music Edition 37mm: retails at 238HKD, saw one for 230kHKD.

They don't advertise them under retail, but when you walk in and start negotiating the lower the price.

15510 OR was 1k above retail.

[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by NTCP8

Some ROs are under retail here in HK:
26715ST, grey dial: retails at 281HKD, got one offered from a well known grey dealer for 261k HKD
15510ST black dial: retails at 215k HKD, grey 210k HKD
ROO Music Edition 37mm: retails at 238HKD, saw one for 230kHKD.

They don't advertise them under retail, but when you walk in and start negotiating the lower the price.

15510 OR was 1k above retail.

Music edition is full set brand new? I would buy that

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by NTCP8

Some ROs are under retail here in HK:
26715ST, grey dial: retails at 281HKD, got one offered from a well known grey dealer for 261k HKD
15510ST black dial: retails at 215k HKD, grey 210k HKD
ROO Music Edition 37mm: retails at 238HKD, saw one for 230kHKD.

They don't advertise them under retail, but when you walk in and start negotiating the lower the price.

15510 OR was 1k above retail.

Wow. Is the 15510st brand new?

[NTCP8]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

Wow. Is the 15510st brand new?

2023, didn't have much time to check it. Saw a few scratches on the bezel and bracelet. So not brand new...

[NTCP8]

Seems the secondary market in HK is first affected by price drops. Saw a few Rolex Submariners (2016, 2018) for 61 - 65k HKD, Submariner 2021 - 2023, 83k HKD. Explorers II 55 - 59k HKD.

[NTCP8]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

Music edition is full set brand new? I would buy that

I think so. Looked in mint condition, Would have bought it last year, but I'm moving away from AP...

[APJourneyFail]

Prices have come way down. Watchcharts on IG gives good trends although not necessarilly actual pricing (slightly inflated)

[Palex]

Watchmarket all down? Ok…

[Palex]

Originally Posted by Palex

Watchmarket all down? Ok…

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by Palex

That is topline revenue for brands, not used prices lol

[Palex]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

That is topline revenue for brands, not used prices lol

I keep hearing stories about RO’s soon being sold with discounts. But I guess with a 15% sales increase in 2023, that will not be the coming months

Of course I understand that are not the used sales.

[echau]

In 2011, I bought a brand new 15300ST for $9,950. I miss those days.

[Nav01L]

Originally Posted by Snapchatog7

I am rather new to the Luxury watch market. There is no denying prices for royals oaks can vary dramatically. My question is with royal oaks limited production and high demand were they ever available for under retail pricing prior to 2021?

Today almost every royal oak is above retail on the secondary market. Is this something to accept as a constant with royal oaks because it has always been that way? Or, were prices under retail before and it is expected to return to its norm?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Yes, got offered a solid discount on a 15202 back in 2014. different times.

[Uros]

RO perpetual calendar looks like going slightly below retail, still close to 100k though


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[dannyboy123]

Given the foregoing I would very much apprediate input into my post about swapping a new rose olive dd for a 15510st. Would you?

[In-N-Out]

Originally Posted by dannyboy123

Given the foregoing I would very much apprediate input into my post about swapping a new rose olive dd for a 15510st. Would you?

this is an AP forum. everyone will say yes. if you ask in the Rolex section, everyone will say no.

not sure what the difference in secondary prices are, but while both are nice watches, they wear very differently. I would much rather have a 15510ST, especially if it's the blue dial, but if you want more flash and arguably a more recognizable watch to flex with, DD is better.

[Vince_76]

26240st silver dial, mint condition 50th was bid up to $32 at auction. That’s 14% off retail BEFORE tax.

Some dealer is listing another on Moda for $49k lol. Go figure. And just ask any dealer to buy a RO and see what they offer. Many have put a moratorium on buying

[Gandor]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

26240st silver dial, mint condition 50th was bid up to $32 at auction. That’s 14% off retail BEFORE tax.

Some dealer is listing another on Moda for $49k lol. Go figure. And just ask any dealer to buy a RO and see what they offer. Many have put a moratorium on buying

Have to factor in 20-30% buyer premium at auction. Still under 42k, but a still a bit above retail.

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by Gandor

Have to factor in 20-30% buyer premium at auction. Still under 42k, but a still a bit above retail.

No. Grailzee fee is 5%. Still under retail before tax.

[fluffybunny]

Originally Posted by echau

In 2011, I bought a brand new 15300ST for $9,950. I miss those days.

In 2011, I sold a PP 5711 for the same as I bought it new two years earlier… $16,000. I miss those days too.


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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

No. Grailzee fee is 5%. Still under retail before tax.

Grailzee is an odd mix of delusional sellers and bargain hunting buyers.

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Grailzee is an odd mix of delusional sellers and bargain hunting buyers.

It’s a well publicized marketplace with a strong cohort of active users. Whatever is the strike price is a good proxy for general market clearing price (by definition).

[Bpan]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

It’s a well publicized marketplace with a strong cohort of active users. Whatever is the strike price is a good proxy for general market clearing price (by definition).

I agree with your first sentence, but Grailzee seems to be especially bad at matching bids and offers. Sellers have delusional reserves, and buyers seem to bid quite a bit lower even than Moda (although perhaps that is the true market clearing price and Moda has too many straw bids)

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by Bpan

I agree with your first sentence, but Grailzee seems to be especially bad at matching bids and offers. Sellers have delusional reserves, and buyers seem to bid quite a bit lower even than Moda (although perhaps that is the true market clearing price and Moda has too many straw bids)

Yeah, sellers definitely have delusional reserves. But what does the fact that these final bids are where they at tell you? To me, it says that that is the maximum price of reasonable buyer is willing to pay (especially if you agree with the fact that it’s a well publicized marketplace).

As it pertains to Moda, I think it’s becoming quite clear that there is a lot of funny business there. I’ve done transactions there, but one really has to do their diligence.