Royal Oaks under retail?

[Snapchatog7]

I am rather new to the Luxury watch market. There is no denying prices for royals oaks can vary dramatically. My question is with royal oaks limited production and high demand were they ever available for under retail pricing prior to 2021?

Today almost every royal oak is above retail on the secondary market. Is this something to accept as a constant with royal oaks because it has always been that way? Or, were prices under retail before and it is expected to return to its norm?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by Snapchatog7

I am rather new to the Luxury watch market. There is no denying prices for royals oaks can vary dramatically. My question is with royal oaks limited production and high demand were they ever available for under retail pricing prior to 2021?

Today almost every royal oak is above retail on the secondary market. Is this something to accept as a constant with royal oaks because it has always been that way? Or, were prices under retail before and it is expected to return to its norm?

Thanks in advance for any responses.

Lol yes they were under retail always until very very recently.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Lol yes they were under retail always until very very recently.

Like basically everything else. Hence it would be rather foolish to claim that it can't happen again. Sure things may change, but plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

[Octagon Guy]

In the early 2000s, there was a period ROs are under retail and ROOs are commanding quite a huge premium then. Nothing is absolute in the world of luxury collection.

[Henrimontgomery]

Look at older models sales. You’ll find some rare models going to 60k now for NOS, which might have been sold at 20k ten years ago. If you’ve find an appreciation for watches during COVID, you’ve never had the luck of making a good deal.

[Broadbear]

You can still find some new ROC and 38 RO at or just under retail


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[SMD]

Yes, no, maybe

[supernova]

Not just AP ROs, but pretty much every watch brand, including Rolex steel sports, were mostly under retail in secondary market before about 5-6 years ago when watch hype started. (steel Daytona was only exception).


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[GB-man]

Of course. My 15400 was 13500 from Cellini in 2015. That was roughly 20% off I believe. They weren’t an easy sell until maybe 2018 or so.

I got 10k trade value for it a couple years later lol

[texasmade]

I bought my 15400 at 22% off retail in late 2016 or early 2017.

[APhound]

Not all are above retail. I was just offered a brand new grey tourbillon for like $30k under retail.. before negotiating. Really nice watch.


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[John Doyle]

Got my 15400sr for 21.5k USD in 2018

[Benzsiam]

Originally Posted by Broadbear

You can still find some new ROC and 38 RO at or just under retail


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Where is the good place to find that kind of good deal?

[SpeedyTuomas]

I was looking at a 26300 at Paris AP in 2010 (or 2011) and it was -20% off without negotiating. Zero interest rates and increased liquidity and inflation did their thing to many other asset classes too..

[noobs]

Originally Posted by APhound

Not all are above retail. I was just offered a brand new grey tourbillon for like $30k under retail.. before negotiating. Really nice watch.

Where do you see those prices? Places like ewc, takuya etc still have a 40% markup.

[Rickkk]

Originally Posted by APhound

Not all are above retail. I was just offered a brand new grey tourbillon for like $30k under retail.. before negotiating. Really nice watch.


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Where was this?!?!

[APhound]

PM me and I’ll put you in touch.
Straight shooter in NY, have done well with him. Has an incredible inventory


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[Vince_76]

15500st fullset just went for $30.5k at auction (if you even believe that it’s not a shill bid). That’s literally retail price in CA

[macrowatch]

Lots of things are still facing crazy rates of inflation like property insurance rates in the US. Luxury trinkets not faring so well as a means of 'holding value' unless the brand is the King, aka Rolex.

I noticed a 50th blue ROC (I wasn't able to get the 50th in this color) going at or about list price, so probably under list price after some negotiation. It is good times to be a watch collector! Maybe only so-so times trying to be a property owner and trying to find insurance!

[johnsonsxusfrt]

Originally Posted by Vince_76

15500st fullset just went for $30.5k at auction (if you even believe that it’s not a shill bid). That’s literally retail price in CA

that's the retail + tax on the 15510ST. I believe the 15500ST (previous model) was in the low $20Ks retail, no?

EDIT: Just did a quick search and this article says the 15500ST was retail at $20,400
https://www.watchcollectinglifestyle...has-gone-crazy

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by johnsonsxusfrt

that's the retail + tax on the 15510ST. I believe the 15500ST (previous model) was in the low $20Ks retail, no?

EDIT: Just did a quick search and this article says the 15500ST was retail at $20,400
https://www.watchcollectinglifestyle...has-gone-crazy

No, when they discontinued it it was close to the price of the 15510 currently. It’s the same model. Think around 26k

[In-N-Out]

not sure what will happen after today's Nvidia earnings, but up until this week we had a great bull run in stocks and crypto for months now. with HYSA at 5.5%, I think alot of people don't mind holding onto cash and delaying watch purchases for a few years. im starting to think the same. RO's at retail may be here by end of the year.

at the end of the day, I do want a few grail pieces like the 15407st (or whatever replaces it) as soon as I can. but the opportunity cost is extremely high for luxury good these days, especially for middle class people. for ultra rich it doesn't matter I guess, but I wouldn't mind keeping my $100k in a HYSA or in stocks/cryptos versus another AP (even an openworked or star wheel)

[Akacoke]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

not sure what will happen after today's Nvidia earnings, but up until this week we had a great bull run in stocks and crypto for months now. with HYSA at 5.5%, I think alot of people don't mind holding onto cash and delaying watch purchases for a few years. im starting to think the same. RO's at retail may be here by end of the year.

at the end of the day, I do want a few grail pieces like the 15407st (or whatever replaces it) as soon as I can. but the opportunity cost is extremely high for luxury good these days, especially for middle class people. for ultra rich it doesn't matter I guess, but I wouldn't mind keeping my $100k in a HYSA or in stocks/cryptos versus another AP (even an openworked or star wheel)

Facts!

[Palex]

Originally Posted by In-N-Out

not sure what will happen after today's Nvidia earnings, but up until this week we had a great bull run in stocks and crypto for months now. with HYSA at 5.5%, I think alot of people don't mind holding onto cash and delaying watch purchases for a few years. im starting to think the same. RO's at retail may be here by end of the year.

at the end of the day, I do want a few grail pieces like the 15407st (or whatever replaces it) as soon as I can. but the opportunity cost is extremely high for luxury good these days, especially for middle class people. for ultra rich it doesn't matter I guess, but I wouldn't mind keeping my $100k in a HYSA or in stocks/cryptos versus another AP (even an openworked or star wheel)

If you buy watches as an investment, you could be right. But why would you do that? There are lots of other opportunities, as you pointed out. Maybe it's better to first earn some on that stock and crypto, and then buy a nice watch to celebrate that. Maybe, after years, get a profit out of that too.

[mobster600]

Look at old RF posts. They were way under retail for most models. Some of the blue dials were hard to get and did command a premium. But only because the black and silver dials were kinda bland. I had a chance to get a used silver dial 26320 for 17k but just missed the sale by day. Granted if you waited another used RO or ROO would surface just as cheap. Watches were easy to source cheaply, especially AP and Rolex. Times have changed. I do see AP coming down more.

[vakman]

Lets hope it gets back to normal by the end of this year. If i have to wine and dine and kiss ass i prefer to end up in a hotel with a good looking blonde. Not for a watch.

[Chelsea1986]

Originally Posted by vakman

Lets hope it gets back to normal by the end of this year. If i have to wine and dine and kiss ass i prefer to end up in a hotel with a good looking blonde. Not for a watch.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by vakman

Lets hope it gets back to normal by the end of this year. If i have to wine and dine and kiss ass i prefer to end up in a hotel with a good looking blonde. Not for a watch.

LOOOOL - facts

[In-N-Out]

I think (or at least hope) Royal Oaks will go back to under retail, with the exception of "hot" models like Jumbo, openworked, and ceramic.

I think Rolex will soon be the same too with perhaps only the Daytona trading above retail (like it always has been). basic subs, GMTs, PMs, should all be at or below retail soon.

This means some of the watches I've personally purchased will be under water, but who cares? I wasn't planning to sell. as long as it's not losing 25-33% as soon as you walk out the door, I think most of us will be fine even if we lose 5-10% immediately. and if you are in it for the long run, some of the "hotter" pieces will offset any paper losses from other pieces so as a "collection" or "portfolio" you will still be at your cost basis in the long run or slightly ahead.

[vakman]

indeed i prefer to lose 10 a 15 procent on a watch and be able to buy what i want.