My AP Las Vegas “Journey” - A Cautionary Tale

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Octagon Guy

Sounds like a CODE 11.59 hater to me. I have a few friends who actually owned more than 3 CODEs and they actually love/wear them more than their RO/ROOs collection. You have to actually put them on the wrist to experience the comfort. On a side note, they are collectors big enough not to go the direction of "buy a CODE to be allocated a RO" tactics.

Good for you but the steel code that my friend has is just meh and yes the onyx tourb, QP and starwheel are cool but the others not so much but a difference in a opinion must be allowed and let’s be honest most don’t particularly like codes.





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[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

I don't understand why everyone get's so worked up over simple facts. The SA's cannot promise rare allocations on fixed time lines, because they do not control these allocations. They can promise to try, which most adults would understand is not the same thing.

I'm also amused by the idea that the first SA did OP dirty by selling him 9 watches during the craziest hype bubble in the history of the Swiss watch industry. At the time of purchase, even the ROO/Code "dogs", as one other poster kindly put it, were trading at about retail. At least 5 (2 ROs, ROC, RO diver and ROO ME) were listing at significant/ridiculous premiums at that time. Less FOMO, more common sense would have been the right recipe.

And to the point that the OP bought watches that, at the time, were at or above retail, is beside the point, isn’t it? He didn’t sell them, other than the one he mentioned, he didn’t try to profit. He just followed the advice of his “trusted” SA and dropped $400,000 on watches, many of which were NOT the desired configurations. That’s the ridiculousness that is just baffling. AP at least could have given him the configurations he wanted, or a grail piece he wanted and stopped leading him on, no? That just seems so reasonable to me. Give the guy the watch he wants, he played the game, he spent a ton of money.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

Agree that this hobby has come to this, but that is the environment we are currently in.

Maybe some don't understand the AP allocation process for the Jumbo and higher complication pieces. The SA and the boutique do not control those allocations. They can only advocate for you to corporate who makes the final decision. At that point, your time with the brand and diversity of your collection is crucial. I too went through the "journey" to strengthen my profile to get approval pieces I wanted. The only difference is I had been collecting AP's way before the Covid craze, ROO's and RO's that gave me the diversity and time with brand already. It also helped that I had the same SA for over 7 years. I even offered to buy a Code and was told not to buy anything I didn't want. And yes, from this very Las Vegas boutique. If I want to sell any pieces they got me, I always let them know my intentions of moving on from the piece before I sell.

You are right about Journe. They don't lead you down any particular path. You just can't get ANYTHING without waiting for a long time and attending event after event for what they call engaging with the brand. Nothing wrong with that either. I'm going through that journey as well and will continue to do so as I have genuine interest in collecting them. Having said that, you're not getting a CO or Resonance without having CS's and Automatiques first (profile building?). Not that I've seen anyways since Covid. After the long journey, see what happens if you sell one of those Journes.. Just saying. It's unfortunate Covid brought about this craziness to this hobby.

Appreciate the feedback. As mentioned in one of my previous replies (and as mentioned in detail in the initial post by the OP), it looks like he has the diversity. So why not give him a grail he wants after 3 years of buying, a ton of diversity in the collection, and $400,000 of spend?

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by dauster

lol hahahahah that’s insane


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That did happen at a certain point during Covid right before they transitioned from being a JV/Westime boutique to being corporate owned. I believe that was the timing. I remember my SA telling me they had literally 0 watches in the boutique, but was told to still come to work.

[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

Appreciate the feedback. As mentioned in one of my previous replies (and as mentioned in detail in the initial post by the OP), it looks like he has the diversity. So why not give him a grail he wants after 3 years of buying, a ton of diversity in the collection, and $400,000 of spend?

That is exactly the question I had. Even if the SA left, the boutique would not throw a client who spent $400k in a two year span by the waste side. That is why I keep questioning whether he sold some pieces during that time period that triggered AP corporate to put him on the naughty list. When that happens, there is not much the boutique can do.

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

That is exactly the question I had. Even if the SA left, the boutique would not throw a client who spent $400k in a two year span by the waste side. That is why I keep questioning whether he sold some pieces during that time period that triggered AP corporate to put him on the naughty list. When that happens, there is not much the boutique can do.

The OP said he sold one piece (the ladies music edition), one that he didn’t want but seemingly was strongly suggested he buy. He said he wanted the men’s one.

So I guess we as customers have to spend $50k on a watch we don’t want just to keep the ball rolling? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The whole thing just seems slimy to me.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

That did happen at a certain point during Covid right before they transitioned from being a JV/Westime boutique to being corporate owned. I believe that was the timing. I remember my SA telling me they had literally 0 watches in the boutique, but was told to still come to work.

I actually remember that too- my former SA sent me a video of a boutique completely empty she just didn’t yell at me thru a closed door hahhahaha


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[mickyd329]

Originally Posted by nyc2la

The OP said he sold one piece (the ladies music edition), one that he didn’t want but seemingly was strongly suggested he buy. He said he wanted the men’s one.

So I guess we as customers have to spend $50k on a watch we don’t want just to keep the ball rolling? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. The whole thing just seems slimy to me.

All I can say is that I was never asked to buy anything I didn't want from this boutique, not even strongly suggested. I've turned down pieces offered that I didn't want as well. It never affected my chances at other pieces. One thing is for sure, it was made crystal clear to me that I needed to keep them informed of any possible sales. Of course everyone's experience and journey is going to be different, but I know a lot of collectors at this boutique and none of them had an experience quite like this. Again, it's not to say it can't or didn't happen. Just unusual for what I've seen an experienced with them.

[Palex]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Starwheel, QP and Onyx dial Tourbillon would be an epic three watch collection.

I had the chance to buy a white gold QP in February 2023 but waited for the 26574, which I got to buy in April ‘23. The code QP never left my thoughts! My wife likes the code better than the RO QP!

Carry on

[nyc2la]

Originally Posted by mickyd329

All I can say is that I was never asked to buy anything I didn't want from this boutique, not even strongly suggested. I've turned down pieces offered that I didn't want as well. It never affected my chances at other pieces. One thing is for sure, it was made crystal clear to me that I needed to keep them informed of any possible sales. Of course everyone's experience and journey is going to be different, but I know a lot of collectors at this boutique and none of them had an experience quite like this. Again, it's not to say it can't or didn't happen. Just unusual for what I've seen an experienced with them.

Good on ya. I guess the OP drew the very short straw with his SA. And it’s a shame AP didn’t make it right after she left. I’d much rather be congratulating the OP on getting a grail than typing all these comments about his disappointment.

[Watchguynyc8300]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Dude, who cares? The guy spent $400,000 with a company and they treated him that poorly.

Which other space would that be acceptable?

Lol Ferrari (dealer dependent) or walking into any south Florida Porsche dealer (ie champion)

[Watchguynyc8300]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

Well, technically, it's not clear the old SA lied - she may have had every intention to deliver one from OP's hodgepodge of grails by April '23, but then left for RM before she could get to it....

When he finally got their attention, AP produced what is probably the hottest of the 41mm steel RO/ROCs within a week as a consolation price. OP was "shocked", took his toys/money and went home. I can't help but think that that's one of many parts of this story once could have played differently.

Gotta love a brand defender / apologist….

[EEpro]

AP sub-forum rules

Rule #1a
No criticism of AP will be tolerated.

Rule #1b
If you had a bad experience, it was mostly your fault.

Rule #2
They sent out vegetables during covid, so they're always right.

Rule #3
Only post wrist pics in the "which AP are you wearing today" thread. All other interactions require a flame suit.

[Palex]

Originally Posted by Watchguynyc8300

Gotta love a brand defender / apologist….

Vogel is nothing but realistic. But then again, probably I am also a brand defender..

[superdog]

Forgive me, I have only read half the comments.

What I am left with is: if the OP had an actual watch he wanted, maybe it would have gone better.

It appears he was not sure which one he actually wanted, just that he wanted one of the "big boy" watches.

Either way, the hype is really real, even now.

Should have just gone gray. Could have bought 2-3 grail pieces and spent less money.

[Palex]

Originally Posted by superdog

Forgive me, I have only read half the comments.

What I am left with is: if the OP had an actual watch he wanted, maybe it would have gone better.

It appears he was not sure which one he actually wanted, just that he wanted one of the "big boy" watches.

Either way, the hype is really real, even now.

Should have just gone gray. Could have bought 2-3 grail pieces and spent less money.

[DonLee]

I only buy what I want, and I only request what I want. If I have to wait, fine, if they don't come, fine.

spending $400k in watches and being told you aren't good enough to buy a gold jumbo or openwork, that's disheartening. That SA basically just used you and squeezed every dime she could out of you. You would have been better off just buying an openwork straight from the grey market and be done with it. It's very wrong, but I kind of get it. AP is fully onboard trying to use influencers and celebs for marketing. THey will always want to sell a piece to someone who has influence more than one that doesn't. Sooner or later, this will backfire.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Palex

I don’t get it.

[Palex]

Originally Posted by superdog

I don’t get it.

To illustrate it’s a sad story…

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Palex

To illustrate it’s a sad story…

I should have gotten that.

But yes, agreed.

Definitely feel for the OP.

And would not chastise him in the least. I’ve done worse, in different ways. And I’m a trusting fellow as well.

But growing skeptical as I age.

[S’portEye]

This too shall pass. AP will get theirs…. It’s already begun.

[RTG]

Originally Posted by BogdanS

Not sure to what purpose as I am pretty sure AP could track down a customer based on the allocation history. Not to mention one that is probably the Single Customer in the world who bought THREE 11:59s.


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I bet quite a few people have gobbled up 3+ codes in pursuit of watches that trade over MSRP. Not many will admit it, but DavidSW knows who they are.

[RTG]

Originally Posted by dchang81

https://money.cnn.com/2014/05/15/new...ude/index.html

Unfortunately, this is mostly the case. I don’t fit that mold. No money spent if treated rudely. You can’t buy your way to self respect.

[RTG]

Originally Posted by S’portEye

This too shall pass. AP will get theirs…. It’s already begun.

I agree.

[johnsonsxusfrt]

Originally Posted by Akacoke

Sad thing is this SA will do it over and over at RM to the unawaring customers who would let her.

100%!!

This is why OP should call out the SA by name to save future customers from getting burned. I have a friend who was strung along by a Rolex AD for >$100K over 5 years and promised Daytona, Hulk, Pepsi and got nothing. I've been telling him as well to call out the AD and SA on the forums.

[Palex]

Originally Posted by RTG

I bet quite a few people have gobbled up 3+ codes in pursuit of watches that trade over MSRP. Not many will admit it, but DavidSW knows who they are.

Hate to spoil it for you, but I gobbled up 5 Royal Oaks before buying a Code, which I like just as much or more than the other ones. The Code is a great watch, I can only imagine you are not an owner, not seeing this. As so many people that never had one on their wrist have an opinion on it.

[APhound]

I wouldn’t mind seeing some pics after all this reading. Perp code is one of my all time favs.
I don’t think you bought any stupid watches, you just now want some special / highly sought after stuff that we all want. I’ve heard sadder stories from guys who spent $$$$$$$$ on Pateks for yearsssss and then their ad loses Patek and that’s it. I’d say your due and I think one way or another you’ll wind up with what you want. Going grey isn’t the end of the world either.. all my special watches were bought grey, more basic stuff from ad..
At the end of the day AP is making the coolest stuff out there , hands down, in my opinion.
First class problems!!!!


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[RTG]

Originally Posted by Palex

Hate to spoil it for you, but I gobbled up 5 Royal Oaks before buying a Code, which I like just as much or more than the other ones. The Code is a great watch, I can only imagine you are not an owner, not seeing this. As so many people that never had one on their wrist have an opinion on it.

I have no criticism of AP codes. None. I’m a secret fanboy of one of them actually.

My only criticism is of the crazy marketplace we just went through where people were willing to do absolutely idiotic things in pursuit of a watch that traded above retail. Based on the number of codes, offshores, divers and ladies models that came available at grey dealers in recent years, usually unworn with warranty cards showing they had been purchased and immediately sold, the obvious conclusion is people were buying watches they didn’t want. I would be shocked if you didn’t come to the same conclusion.

[APhound]

Originally Posted by RTG

I have no criticism of AP codes. None. I’m a secret fanboy of one of them actually.

My only criticism is of the crazy marketplace we just went through where people were willing to do absolutely idiotic things in pursuit of a watch that traded above retail. Based on the number of codes, offshores and divers that came available at grey dealers in recent years, usually unworn with warranty cards showing they had been purchased and immediately sold, the obvious conclusion is people were buying watches they didn’t want. I would be shocked if you didn’t come to the same conclusion by yourself, regardless of your love of codes.

Or.. more likely.. couldn’t afford.


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[RTG]

Originally Posted by APhound

Or.. more likely.. couldn’t afford.


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Good point.