My AP Las Vegas “Journey” - A Cautionary Tale

[APJourneyFail]

My AP Las Vegas “Journey” - A Cautionary Tale

I have been collecting watches since 1987. I became interested in getting a nice AP so I reached out to some members on the forum here back in 2017/2018. I started communicating with a sales agent in Las Vegas on a referral from a fellow TRF patron. I expressed my long term goal of getting an openwork or ceramic piece. Of course I knew this was a process, or a “journey” as AP likes to call it.

The sales agent (SA) and I communicated back and forth for quite a while until ultimately I was offered a piece in April of 2021. At that time I was interested in a 38mm ROC 26315st with silver dial and blue subdials. I flew out to try one on that had come in for a client and was already sold. I liked it and agreed to proceed by placing a deposit for the next one. Not long after this visit a 26315st was offered to me , but it was the grey dial version. My sales agent
advised me not to be “picky” about dial color and that this would get my foot in the door with AP. I flew out and purchased that watch in April 2021.

Things moved rather quickly after that and I was always reminded by my SA that I “can’t be picky”, not to ask for certain pieces and to “trust” her (my sales agent). Whenever I would bring up a piece I would like to obtain, she would say things like “my Raider client learned the first time I had a 1-hour face to face.. (he) put his trust in me ...never questions me...doesn’t
tell me ‘I want this, I want that”. She told me that she had great success in the past for her clients and to trust her. So I eventually did place my trust in her hands.

Over the course of just under 2 years, my wife and I purchased 8 more AP timepieces:

1)April 2021- 38mm ROC 26315st purchased (grey dial) - (asked for silver/blue subdials)

2) Jul 2021- Code 11:59 ladies purchase - told by SA we needed ladies piece/ diversity in collection.

3) Dec 2021- Code 11:59 RG/ Ceramic Chrono purchased - asked for WG/ ceramic version (cool piece imo).

4) Mar 2022- Ladies gold ROO purchased - didn’t ask for - told us buying a ladies piece from each AP collection category is helpful to achieve my AP grail.

About this time we again discussed the grail - I gave her a list of dream watches (Royal oak PC, ceramic anything , gold jumbo) and we agreed that in April of 2023 we would try to get it as that would coincide with my 25th wedding anniversary.

5) Mar 2022 AP Diver purchased (grey dial) - (asked for blue dial)

6) Jun 2022- Code PC purchased (103k) - this was a call we received out of the blue. Hooray she said, we had been “approved” for this wonderful timepiece. My SA told us we had been approved by not only the boutique manager , but the North America CEO and Francois Bennahmias! This was a shock to us as we had already purchased 2 Codes and never asked for a 3rd one. She explained this was a HUGE step in the process as being approved by these people would make it easier to be approved when we asked for my grail. Also we needed to fly in and pick up the watch asap. After some debate with the wife we flew in and purchased it.

Again confirming with the SA that we would ask for my grail for 1st quarter or by April 2023.

7) Jul 2022 - 41mm RO 15500 purchased - I liked this piece. Yay- maybe we are getting somewhere?

8) Oct 2022 - 37mm RO purchased for wife.

9) Oct 2022- 37mm Music Ti purchased - I did ask for a men’s (43mm) ceramic or titanium music piece. This was the ladies size and she was offering it to me and advising me to buy it.

She told me how important it was to purchase a watch each quarter and we could try for my grail next. The 37mm arrived (they were ok shipping this one despite making us travel for the others). It comes with smaller colored straps in a mosaic style I consider feminine - needless to say I was disappointed. My wife didn’t care for it either. We later sold this piece after one year in Dec ’23 (only watch we sold).

Jan 31, 2023 - My sales associate texts me that “tomorrow is my last day at AP”. She was moving just across from the AP boutique to the RM boutique in the same mall.

Feb1 2023- Feb 2024 - ZERO watches offered to me after my sales agent left

So in summary, we purchased 3 Code 11:59’s , 3 ROO , a ROC and 2 Royal Oaks with a spend of approx $400,000. This isn’t counting last minute travel as well or things like straps or cufflinks she added to a Royal Oak purchase. At least 4 of the 9 pieces we purchased were lady pieces.

We flew out in February 2023 and my wife met with our new Sales Agent. She discussed our purchases and our goal to get the grail for me for our wedding anniversary. The SA seemed disinterested and told her we already had a lot of nice pieces and what we were asking for was hard. Overall, it was not a good meeting. We reached out to the boutique manager - he was of little help also. He was relatively new to AP but had been there for 6 of the 9 purchases. His
knowledge of horology wasn’t vast. He once told me a timepiece was stainless steel when I commented on the lightness of a Titanium ROO I was viewing. I believe he was in clothing sales prior.

My understanding is that when a sought after timepiece arrives, each sales agent vouches for their client and the manager decides who gets the allocation. With these two working for us, I was naturally hesitant but decided to trust them to follow through on our prior SA’s recommendation for our next piece (she told me she left our choices with the manager).

We waited patiently throughout the year hoping that the number of pieces purchased , the diversity of the collection as well as our overall spend would allow for a nice allocation. Well, 2023 came and went.
We were offered ZERO pieces in 2023 after buying nearly every quarter for 2 years!
After getting nowhere with the boutique manager I decided to email the North
America CEO. She didn’t reply to several emails nor did she return a phone call from my wife. Only after sending an email to her and the new AP CEO in Jan 2024 did she finally reply. I figured we would have one last chance at making things right.
The North America CEO cc’d the Las Vegas boutique manager and the “Client Care Manager” in Florida to address the matter. I felt like maybe we were getting some resolution. They scheduled a time for a conference call. It was myself, the Vegas manager and AP client care manager. Ultimately after explaining my case to them they called a week later and offered me a
choice between 2 pieces: a 15510OR (gold royal oak, black dial on strap) or a 26240st (a 41mm royal oak Chrono green dial). I was shocked. I told them I would decide and let them know. These are mid-tier at best in my opinion and not anything I was expecting. Also, I have a steel ROC and RO already.

I later emailed them that I would decline both of the pieces because neither one was very appealing to me and I was through buying pieces that I didn’t ask for. The client care manager again asked to set up a call. This time, she was very rude on the phone with continual interruptions and speaking over me. She told me my “journey” didn’t qualify for the pieces I wanted (any jumbo
-ss or gold, any ceramic even the chrono). I explained that I follow watch forums and IG, etc and I personally know people who have gotten these pieces with less spend. She didn’t care. They offered no other pieces besides the 2 initial offerings. I again declined. The hubris in this company is unreal.

I know some of you will say I’m an idiot for buying pieces I didn’t really want. My SA assured me she had been very successful for her clients over the years and I trusted her. Hindsight is 20/20 and I won’t ever do this again. My hope is that I have provided some direct insight to prevent this from happening to more clients in the future. At the very least, I would encourage anyone pursuing AP to try shopping at any boutique other than AP Las Vegas @ Crystals.

I realize the past few years the watch demand has been crazy and AP was able to cater to celebrities, athletes and Instagram “influencers”. Hopefully, they will realize that the common client may be the valued customer of the future once this crazy market returns to normal. If you made it this far, thanks for reading. I wish you all success on your future watch endeavors!

[sensui]

This is really terrible. I am very sorry. Perseverance is a stellar trait but in this case applied toward the wrong venue with some bad people along the ride to take advantage. Very grateful you shared your experience and I hope it helps others make their decisions when playing these games in the luxury space.

[Armis]

This was a very difficult and saddening account to read as I was hoping for any sort of silver lining. As you say, there are those who would have been able to decline anything offered that they didn’t want; however, in your sequence of events I can see how that happened, and that it could happen to me. It is the actions of the first SA that I seriously abhor given she seemed to be expertly pulling your strings and making statements that put you in a corner to buy, buy, buy…and then to leave without any proper transition to another SA:(

I give you credit for going up the chain the way you did, but that really shouldn’t have been necessary. But the attitude and outcome was particularly surprising from that level. Obviously, we’ve read many positive experiences at other boutiques and Houses, and not all boutiques are necessarily the same. Still, I expected a different outcome when you went to the manager’s level and above. I wish I had any advice or helpful thoughts on what you may do next, but this is a shocking case. There are valuable lessons in this, certainly for me, so thank you for sharing these details.

[Jmaguire17]

My condolences on such a long journey with significant spend on watches that were not all truly desired. Although SAs do come and go, the boutique manager should have been and still be your best advocate especially since, he was there for most of the purchases. The regional director should also likely be aware of your situation and perhaps assist. You mentioned you flew to Vegas, is there a boutique closer that would be a better fit? With your purchase history, you will likely have a better journey

[JorgeCCW]

Thanks for writing this. I’ll be sure to stay away from the Vegas Boutique

[hellofromthebay]

They’ve recently done the same thing to me. They keep moving the goal post.


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[crispyness87]

This is extremely disheartening and unacceptable. This won’t make you feel better, but I’d think your profile is strong and you should be rewarded with the pieces you want. It sounds like you were taken advantage of. We are all reminded that we are in the mercy of our SAs.

[dbfagan]

Very sad. A lot of us have been collecting far longer than the “influencers”. It’s a shame that these brands are so short sighted. Once the hype dies down, and it will, who will buy their watches after being treated so shabbily?

I went “grey” a long time ago when purchasing an AP, PP, or Rolex. It’s cheaper in the long run considering the games AD’s are playing.

I am truly sorry this happened to you.

[chaucer]

This is a real shame. Sorry to read of your experience, but thanks for sharing. Credible stories like this make me wonder if I should just be going gray.

[Steele]

Damn I swear I was reading this and its like a roller coaster ride!!! I was sooo hopeful at the end and Honestly I want the Gold 15510OR lol! Black Dial Full Bracelet, But I want a Yellow Gold more than Rose

Dude I'm so sorry and I think that Vegas is always such a tough spot to buy and you did get a bunch of Pieces I hope you will have better luck with them dont give up my friend. I would keep pushing for the grail and plead your case also you can ask to get transferred to a different AP House in a better less volatile market!

Cheers

[WatchEater666]

Incredibly common story with collectors. I don't trust any of the big brands at all and would ONLY go grey because of stories like these.

Yeah you'll pay a premium, but you also wont spend $400k on stuff you don't want....

Treating customers this way is why I don’t think AP will be doing well for much longer.

[nyc2la]

This is painful to read. What is going on with AP? Here we have a “regular” customer who spent a lot, bought multiple watches in different families of the brand, both men’s and women’s, at the advice and guidance of a salesperson, who clearly was either intentionally misleading or unwittingly helping but with no ability to make any decisions. Either way, the games played are terrible. It must be so frustrating, OP.

AP brought the buying experience in-house, via AP boutiques. It should be easier, more transparent, and more enjoyable. It’s a real shame.

[Kittayos]

Here is my case starting from July 2020 through AP boutique. Bought a three hand code as my first AP watch at this boutique and received 15202st a few months later. I then proceeded to get a concept 26589io in December 20220 and received 15407or in April 2021. Then, offshore tourbillon 26622ti in late 2021 for 15416ce a year later. In 2022, 26240st green, 15551or, 26240or blue leather strap and offshore music ceramic 41mm were given away without bundling. I hadn’t purchased anything since then.

Your SA is really messed up. I hope you finally get your grail piece.

[Akacoke]

The Truth is just too ugly. Your journey is way too rough. At this point I'd write to AP headquarters.

[cosmoliu]

What a disheartening $400k+ story!

I'm glad I pursued a 14790st for my size wrist. I paid a couple of thousand over the Watchcharts average for January, 2024, but got a really pristine blue, late production piece. Complete. It even keeps time within +4-5 seconds a day. (Checking Watchcharts just now, it looks like I timed it for a nice dip in the price curve). So happy was I with the fit, I called the AP House in LA to see about getting on the list for a 15550st. It would be cool to have the current version with exhibition caseback. Maybe in grey. When I indicated that I wasn't excited about fighting LA traffic just to come in and do the AD Kabuki dance, the SA said she'd check with her manager about waiving the face to face requirement. I never heard back.

I've moved on to Lange.

[mickyd329]

I'm so sorry to hear about your journey. It shouldn't happen to any collector, but especially someone who spent $400k in a short period of time.

I have been using the Vegas "Crystals" boutique for over 7 years since they were a JV boutique with Westime. I've had the same SA the entire time. My experience has been the complete opposite of yours. I've taken the journey, but always with pieces I ask for including sought after pieces like Jumbo, Ceramic Openwork, and RO QP. They've always taken really good care of me and the wife. Friends and family we referred were always taken care of with RO's as first allocations.

I know the boutique director well and this seems very out of character for him. Getting APNA and Switzerland approval for higher complication pieces like the QP is very much a reality. Once you get approved through that process, it opens up future allocation opportunities for difficult references. I don't believe that is a sales pitch thrown your way. It seems your original SA might be the crux of the problem. She shouldn't have been pushing pieces on you for the sake of the journey.

I hope the experience doesn't turn you off on the brand itself. Maybe finding an AP House closer to you might help get you sorted out. Your purchase history is definitely strong enough for any Jumbo or Ceramic references.

[Watchguynyc8300]

Wow…just wow…guess they re taking margin when they can. So you’re nearly half a million into this journey with no watch you like?

Seems like a pretty abject failure to let such a high lifetime value customer slip away…it’s not like they’re checking how accurate the watches are at the factory if one reads this forum.

Sorry to hear….

[In-N-Out]

That’s a terrible experience for sure. No way to treat any client. Your first SA definitely took advantage of you. It’s always YMMV based on the brand and your SA. I felt like my “journey” with my Rolex AD was going to end up similar to yours had I “trusted” them, so I stopped immediately after getting the workaround after my first piece. I haven’t looked at Rolex that seriously ever since. If AP or any brand did to me what they did to you, I would never support them ever again. Lots of great brands out there. AP is by far my favorite brand, but if I spend $400k you better treat me well. I don’t care who the other clients are. Even Apple has better customer service than most luxury brands these days.

Anyway, great decision to burn the bridge on your part. Hopefully if you sell some or all your watches you can come out ahead of your cost basis

[l_chissle]

This shouldn't happen, it sounds like a rogue SA. And AP should have made up for this rogue SA in subsequent interactions, you have more than enough spend for a jumbo.

[smallcollector]

disgusting

[Narbeh]

Terrible. Sucks man. I’d talk to the director about that. Not cool.

[interestedwatcher]

I'd be back onto the CEO about this, or take it to Switzerland.

[Ashj52]

Thank you for sharing your story, and sorry to hear. Appalling customer service all round.

[rappvctrinity]

wow... I hear Vegas and all I see are hustlers and con men. in this case con-women. My
AP experience in NYC is the complete opposite.

[EEpro]

Yeah going grey seems so expensive.

Really sorry to hear about all this. I hated that Las Vegas boutique as a local. I tried to stop by and talk twice but they were all awful people.

I hope you were able to offload some or most of that before AP halved.

[Broadbear]

I’m so sorry about your experience. My personal experience at AP house in NYC is quite the opposite. My SA is awesome and helpful, to the point where he walked with me few blocks to get a book I saw they had and I really wanted back in July. There are good and bad guys everywhere, just don’t give up on the brand based on one bad SA. You can reach out to me directly and I would be happy giving you his details. All that to say you can always switch boutiques and start where you left off, I hope.

[messikens]

I would seriously go to the head of the boutique or speak to corporate and ask to be transferred to either a Nomad or another boutique.

Unfortunately you got suckered by your SA but as they say - it takes two to tango. After half your spend I would have had a serious word witu the SA already.

You seem to have accomplished a high level of success (if you equate this with wealth) in life, so being intimidated by a watch SA shouldn't be on the books for you

[goog53]

How does the Client Care Manager and North American CEO not remedy this situation ASAP?  Reading this makes the Shreve and Co Patek incident seem like small potatoes. It seems like the guy blew 400k and ended up with 3 Code 11:59s (Time Only, Chrono, PC) and a pair of cuff links (in a world where nobody wears suits) yet wasnt even offered a Jumbo which in my opinion would be just an ok allocation or a Ceramic piece which this type of purchase history really deserves. I’m not trying to pour salt in the guy’s wounds, but Does anyone on the planet own 3 Code 11:59s besides the OP? He should get an all expense paid trip to Le Brassus and an Ambassadorship just for that Hopefully an AP Nomad or somebody in Switzerland reads this and gets involved because this type of customer service is appalling.  It seems as if they can just blow off what looks like a potential 7 figure client when the watch market is already seeing a significant pullback  Please keep us updated as my fingers are crossed for you and hope there is happy resolution and appropriate incoming to this thread.  I own a 15202BC that I bought grey and love it but am so glad I didnt play this type of BS game.  Reading this has definitely soured me on the brand.

[APhound]

I can relate.. until I finally got connected with a nomad. PM me if you want me to make an intro..


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[samson66]

A cautionary tale is right. This shows one reason why I see no point in building "relationships" with ADs or SAs. SAs change jobs or retire, ADs close. I know when it comes to AP or Patek or whatever you need a vast spend history to get in-demand pieces but if I'm being honest I find the whole process repulsive and ridiculous. I would never go through this although I'm not in a position financially to do so anyway. What people do with their own money is their business. I'm sorry to hear how this turned out and hope others can benefit from hearing about your journey.