AP vs. VC Watches for Sale

[swish77]

For months, I've been monitoring sales listings for APs and Vacheron Constantin, looking for a watch I like for a good price.

Why on earth are there so, so many APs offered for sale every day, and virtually no VCs?

Anyone with better knowledge of the Big Three care to shed some light on this? Are APs made in greater quantities? The trend seems odd in part because many APs sell at a higher price point on the secondary market and hold their value better. They certainly seem more plentiful than VCs.

[RolexZen]

VC production numbers are half that of AP.

In addition, number of second-hand offerings are greater because resale value are high. Resale values are high because resale values are high (hype). Both are great watches, you can find great value on VC at the moment.

[swish77]

I tend to gravitate more toward the design on VCs for whatever reason, but you rarely see them for sale on the secondary market, which is annoying.

I've read that VCs don't hold their value as well as APs, but I have a feeling that's changing, especially because you don't see that many for sale and when you do, they ain't much less than retail. Simple supply and demand.

[srvrf]

Originally Posted by RolexZen

VC production numbers are half that of AP.

In addition, number of second-hand offerings are greater because resale value are high. Resale values are high because resale values are high (hype). Both are great watches, you can find great value on VC at the moment.

I agree and do think it is a lot due to production numbers. A quick search on Chrono24 shows about 3500 VCs for sale right now and 8200 APs so it is reasonably close to half for VC. I also think that because of the nature of recent resale values, there aren't as many people are buying/selling VCs to make money compared to AP.

[SMD]

Lower supply and a lot less demand. Reality is there are only a few brands that are liquid on the resale market, and those are the brands that will dominate the for sale listings. AP is one and VC is not.

[JorgeCCW]

Originally Posted by SMD

Lower supply and a lot less demand. Reality is there are only a few brands that are liquid on the resale market, and those are the brands that will dominate the for sale listings. AP is one and VC is not.

Yeah, imho
Rolex > Patek > AP > the rest

From a financial point of view, stick those 3 brands
If the financial part doesn't have an impact for the OP then he can buy whatever his heart desires , I am not that lucky
Cheers

[othertbone]

Most of the sellers are grey dealers, and this dealers would rather spend their money on Rolex, AP and PP then to take a VC in inventory that will be hard to sell.

[Burlington]

VC make some beautiful and superbly made pieces - but with the current vogue for sports watches, this leaves the majority of VC in the shade.

Unfortunately resale doesn’t always respect horological value or accomplishment.

[AK797]

As well as the good points mentioned, and because of poor resale and generally falling out of the old trinity to Lange, mean that VC buyers make very considered decisions to buy one and thus will not sell them so easily.

[swish77]

Good points above, although I don’t think the resale on VCs is as bad as everyone makes out. For example, a new blue Overseas non-chrono retails for $19300, and you can’t find it for less than about $16500 used, and most are in the mid $17Ks and up. That’s not horrible. (I’ve owned that watch and it’s stunning.)

The market seems flooded with APs, and there’s very little available of VCs, not the newer hotter models, anyway. It’s a shame.

[cwilson13]

I have considered that blue dial non-chrono Overseas.
Great blue dial and I like the strap change-out system.

[TJMike]

Originally Posted by swish77

Good points above, although I don’t think the resale on VCs is as bad as everyone makes out. For example, a new blue Overseas non-chrono retails for $19300, and you can’t find it for less than about $16500 used, and most are in the mid $17Ks and up. That’s not horrible. (I’ve owned that watch and it’s stunning.)

The market seems flooded with APs, and there’s very little available of VCs, not the newer hotter models, anyway. It’s a shame.

I don't follow AP so I will not comment on the brand. As for VC, the brand has been doing well the last couple of years. As you note, the Overseas is holding up well.

As for VC dress watches, they still hold up as well as Patek and better than Lange. While the perception is that Patek dress watches hold value, the reality is they do not. In that regard, VC is exactly the same.

[Kliminator]

I think there is room for VC resale values to improve given the current watch market

[JohnGT3RS]

I think the blue dial on the overseas looks great. I keep thinking about adding one.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by JohnGT3RS

I think the blue dial on the overseas looks great. I keep thinking about adding one.

Yes, you should, but they're tough to find nowadays, for a decent price anyway. And the boutiques rarely have them. I regret trading mine. By far, the best blue dial on the market from any brand.

[JohnGT3RS]

I saw one of those in Vegas a year ago. I should have pulled the trigger.

[GB-man]

They need to be sold first before they can be resold!

[pepsiretail]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, you should, but they're tough to find nowadays, for a decent price anyway. And the boutiques rarely have them. I regret trading mine. By far, the best blue dial on the market from any brand.

Really don't agree with the last sentence. There are so many blue dials and so many of them are exceptional to signal one as by far the best is a little bizarre.

The thread is confusing. Its like you want to come on the AP forum and denigrate the brand and pump up VC under a pretext that just sounds made up "For months, I've been monitoring sales listings for APs and Vacheron Constantin, looking for a watch I like for a good price."

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by pepsiretail

The thread is confusing. Its like you want to come on the AP forum and denigrate the brand and pump up VC under a pretext that just sounds made up "For months, I've been monitoring sales listings for APs and Vacheron Constantin, looking for a watch I like for a good price."

Agreed. OP seems to be playing at something.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by pepsiretail

Really don't agree with the last sentence. There are so many blue dials and so many of them are exceptional to signal one as by far the best is a little bizarre.

The thread is confusing. Its like you want to come on the AP forum and denigrate the brand and pump up VC under a pretext that just sounds made up "For months, I've been monitoring sales listings for APs and Vacheron Constantin, looking for a watch I like for a good price."

It's "bizarre" to have an opinion? That's what we do here. Share opinions. You don't need to agree with it, that's fine.

All I was saying is the secondary market is flooded with APs, while there are very few VCs available. Just trying to get some understanding as to why that's the case. Those two brands are often compared, along with Patek, so this was just another comparison. Not sure why you think something else is going on. It ain't that deep.

Originally Posted by RolexZen

Agreed. OP seems to be playing at something.

Really? Now, what would that be? I assure you there's no "playing" going on. Just a curiosity.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by swish77

…

All I was saying is the secondary market is flooded with APs, while there are very few VCs available. Just trying to get some understanding as to why that's the case.

...

Audemars has effectively been little more than the Royal Oak company these past 5 years or so.
Production has ramped up from 30K to 40K per annum, whereas Vacheron has a wide gamut of models, not just the Overseas, and only produce 25K pieces each year.
As a result, there’s been far less Overseas made overall, which is why you see such a disparity.

[JohnGT3RS]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Audemars has effectively been little more than the Royal Oak company these past 5 years or so.
Production has ramped up from 30K to 40K per annum, whereas Vacheron has a wide gamut of models, not just the Overseas, and only produce 25K pieces each year.
As a result, there’s been far less Overseas made overall, which is why you see such a disparity.

This.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Audemars has effectively been little more than the Royal Oak company these past 5 years or so.
Production has ramped up from 30K to 40K per annum, whereas Vacheron has a wide gamut of models, not just the Overseas, and only produce 25K pieces each year.
As a result, there’s been far less Overseas made overall, which is why you see such a disparity.

Makes sense, thanks. Interesting that the Royal Oak remains very much in demand with strong prices even as the company makes many more. I wonder if that strategy will eventually bring prices down on the secondary market, based simply on supply.

[RolexZen]

Originally Posted by swish77

Makes sense, thanks. Interesting that the Royal Oak remains very much in demand with strong prices even as the company makes many more. I wonder if that strategy will eventually bring prices down on the secondary market, based simply on supply.

Well, supply hasn’t increased since 2015, when they announced production at 40,000, with the commitment to not increase that number through 2020.

But nothing in retail is based solely on supply.

[drgoro]

I like the VC overseas. But I wouldn’t wear it before any of my current AP, which is my benchmark of adding to the collection at this point. As pointed out earlier, AP pumps out more watches. So it’s really a function of numbers produced leading to more availability on the second hand market for AP vs VC