Two Ref 16520 "Patrizzi" Questions

[daOnlyBG]

Hello, I am quite interested in acquiring a Daytona Ref 16520 with the "Patrizzi" dial. I know that the correct serial number range is end of '93 through the beginning of '96, and that I should prob focus on '94-'95 serials.

I also know that the coating on the dial was made by an organic chemical that facilitated the aging/patina.

And I also know that many people here don't like them. Personally, I think they're gorgeous.

However, I still have two questions:

1. Oxidation happens at different rates, chiefly due to surroundings and environment. I suspect it's plausible that a true "Patrizzi" dial has minimal patina that could later develop with time. So, I'd rather not dismiss a Daytona beforehand when in fact it is a Patrizzi dial.
   
   When examining the dial under a loupe, are there miniscule, tell-tale signs of oxidation that may not necessarily be visible to the casual naked eye? Maybe instead of looking at the subdial, one should also look at the black dial in general for some other sign?
   
   
2. In the past, I've seen some dealers post pictures of Patrizzi dials but with luminova/non-Tritium dials. What's up with that? Is it possible to find a Patrizzi dial from the late 90s?

Thanks in advance!

[1665fan]

They are a beautiful reference....I would seek out a W serial 16520 if it were me

[athom]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Hello, I am quite interested in acquiring a Daytona Ref 16520 with the "Patrizzi" dial. I know that the correct serial number range is end of '93 through the beginning of '96, and that I should prob focus on '94-'95 serials.

I also know that the coating on the dial was made by an organic chemical that facilitated the aging/patina.

And I also know that many people here don't like them. Personally, I think they're gorgeous.

However, I still have two questions:

1. Oxidation happens at different rates, chiefly due to surroundings and environment. I suspect it's plausible that a true "Patrizzi" dial has minimal patina that could later develop with time. So, I'd rather not dismiss a Daytona beforehand when in fact it is a Patrizzi dial.
   
   When examining the dial under a loupe, are there miniscule, tell-tale signs of oxidation that may not necessarily be visible to the casual naked eye? Maybe instead of looking at the subdial, one should also look at the black dial in general for some other sign?
   
   
2. In the past, I've seen some dealers post pictures of Patrizzi dials but with luminova/non-Tritium dials. What's up with that? Is it possible to find a Patrizzi dial from the late 90s?

Thanks in advance!

I don't know if you can see a Patrizzi dials from other signs thant the sub dials but only tritium dial can be Patrizzi. Also I don't know how to figure out the fake home made Patrizzi subdials...I'm not a big fan of this hype. I'd rather buy an inverted 6 !

[springer]

The last issues of the Zenith Daytona had luminova dials.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by athom

I don't know if you can see a Patrizzi dials from other signs thant the sub dials but only tritium dial can be Patrizzi. Also I don't know how to figure out the fake home made Patrizzi subdials...I'm not a big fan of this hype. I'd rather buy an inverted 6 !

My sentiments also. There are lots of the home made one's about.😇

[springer]

Originally Posted by Paulie 50

My sentiments also. There are lots of the home made one's about.😇

I echo your sentiments. It's amazing how many of these watches seemed to originate from a certain country in Europe. I never bought into the Patrizzi hype.

[othertbone]

Very tricky brother. I would only source from the most reputable of sellers, no doubt.

[Paulie 50]

Originally Posted by springer

I echo your sentiments. It's amazing how many of these watches seemed to originate from a certain country in Europe. I never bought into the Patrizzi hype.

What were they called before Patrizzi? and more to the point,can anyone recollect seeing one? ��

[swish77]

I posted a similar question about black 16520s over on the general forum, but didn't get much traction ....

Following up on the OPs questions ... I've been studying these black 16520s for a long time and they're growing on me. One thing I've noticed is that on the non-Patrizzi dials there can also be patina that develops on the sub-dial rings. They turn a slight cream/tan color, and some owners/sellers assume that they're Patrizzi dials that haven't gone full tan/brown yet. I don't think that's the case at all. I just think that non-Patrizzi dials slightly age too, and also that lighting on those dials have a tendency to make the sub-dial rings look cream/tan in some conditions, even though they look white in other lighting conditions.

Here's a watch I'm currently considering buying, a U serial that is definitely unpolished (and definitely scratched up a bit), and also with some patina on the sub-dials. I've seen it in person under a loupe, and it's definitely not a Patrizzi. In the second photo you can see how the sub dial on the left looks like it has some patina, but on the right it looks quite white. That's just the lighting. The third photo is borrowed, showing a non-Patrizzi dial (on the left) next to a real Patrizzi dial to show the difference.

[GTS Dean]

This is my tritium dialed 1998 U-series. It spent a LOT of time outdoors for its first 10+ years.

[theflywrist]

Agree with the gents regarding the home made ones.
I too find them gorgeous OP, and I would absolutely love to own one. It just got a little “strange” to say the least when so many starting popping up as prices went up.
That, together with the fact that I don’t know how to distinguish between a “natural, and a baked one is why I steered away.

As Aaron says, plenty have got some nice creamy color to the subdials. Not patrizzi per se, but aged beautifully. A lot of it also depends on lighting!
Here is my A series, almost unworn when I had picked it up but seen tons of wear since.
If you compare the shade of the subdials with the white hour markers, you can tell there is some aging.
Not patrizzi, but beautiful nonetheless.

My advice is, try to get one in nice shape that has aged well. Least you won’t worry about any sort of shady business. If you do head the patrizzi route, go via a very reputable seller.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by theflywrist

My advice is, try to get one in nice shape that has aged well. Least you won’t worry about any sort of shady business. If you do head the patrizzi route, go via a very reputable seller.

Stunning example, Adel, and great advice! In my quest, I avoided Patrizzi dials (or alleged Patrizzi's.) I actually prefer the look of the milder patina on the sub-dials, and as explained, the real Patrizzi's can be a minefield when trying to establish whether it's occurred naturally. In general, the black 16520 is such a great reference. Much prefer it to the modern Daytona-C.

[ratty]

Some sellers describe every black dialled 16520 at a 'Patrizzi'!

[theflywrist]

Originally Posted by swish77

Stunning example, Adel, and great advice! In my quest, I avoided Patrizzi dials (or alleged Patrizzi's.) I actually prefer the look of the milder patina on the sub-dials, and as explained, the real Patrizzi's can be a minefield when trying to establish whether it's occurred naturally. In general, the black 16520 is such a great reference. Much prefer it to the modern Daytona-C.

Agreed Aaron! Hope you manage to snatch the black one you are looking at.
I do own and love my white Daytona C, but the zenith is undeniably a beauty and great reference, both in back and white.