5 digit subs - keep or move?

[IR201]

Hi if you've seen some of my other posts I've got a lot of black divers and am considering moving some. Latest contemplation is to move my 5 digit sub date and/or 5 digit sub no date (sorry 'sub'). Please don't message about sales etc., and please go easy on me as this is just a brainstorm (i.e. no SEE NO ONE THINKS FOR THEMSELVES THESE DAYS speeches). This is my process - anyway, here is my rationale:

I sometimes struggle with their worth considering how they feel in terms of build quality/bracelet especially relative to 6 digits (I know they are robust before anyone gets annoyed, but they FEEL less so to me).

They are the most copied, homaged watches - at this point I could prob get the same look with a homage (sorry!) while using the $$ towards something only Rolex can pull off (and arguably that includes maxi cases, sorry!).

For the date version, I see this all over the place, including on young adults including young women in coffee shops and having brunch etc. I'm guessing it was handed down from their fathers etc. I feel it is so common it does not feel as special to me.

For the no date version, this feels a little more special to me but it wears fairly small/flat. Truth be told, I like the date version better in terms of feel (it feels a bit bigger and thicker) but less in terms of cyclops/ubiquity.

I also struggle with the no date a bit in terms of feeling like a bit of a poser WIS with it. Same feeling I had with the speedmaster.

ON THE OTHER HAND

They are Rolex history in a nutshell.

I've got great examples of both (but this is also a downside because if I put a dent or a ding in either of them the value drops a lot within the range which is heavily condition based - and this is opportunity cost to parlay into something else)

Sure they are homaged, but no one can truly do what Rolex has done - not particularly close.

They both feel amazing on the wrist, better than any of my other watches except the explorer 39. And I like the 5 digit case shape better than the 6.

Do I really want to have all 6 digit ceramic more flashy sports watches? (other than my Explorer). Am I then just falling victim to the latest, greatest, shiniest objects?

Who cares if the date version is everywhere - it is common for good reason - do you really want what is common or not to dictate what YOU like?

I should mention what other black divers I would have remaining: SD4K, ND ceramic, SD43

[joli160]

They also feel less to me and a 5 digit Sub is not Rolex history, not vintage, just old.
For real history you should perhaps look into 4 digit Submariners. That is something I would like to wear. Personally I am not diving in the vintage world because of my lack of knowledge and the huge amount of doctored watches in this game. Lot's of con artists

It's also only on TRF where people bash the "new" case. In the real world I bet most people choose the 6 digit if you let them handle both.
I'd go for the 6 digit everyday.

[MilesB]

What other divers do you have? I’d say keep a Sub and sell others. I have a preference for the no date, but both are nice. I’d struggle with both a date and no date Sub in the collection, so sell one, but not both.

[daOnlyBG]

Some thoughts: you seem to be stuck on how to reduce your collection (which I just looked at on another page).

Personally, I'd immediately discount what you think others think of your watches- not because their opinion is actually irrelevant, but because our perceptions isn't always accurate. Case in point:

Originally Posted by IR201

Do I really want to have all 6 digit ceramic more flashy sports watches? (other than my Explorer). Am I then just falling victim to the latest, greatest, shiniest objects?

They're not flashy. I wear a 126710BLRO and no one notices it. Somehow, I doubt a 6-digit ceramic watch is any more "flashy" by general population standards lol.

And as for date vs no-date, I'm not sure there's really evidence of one dominating the market over the other. I'd venture to say most here have seen about the same in the wild.

Nevertheless, I do see people who flaunt all ceramic sports models and it reflects somewhat of a dull taste, so I appreciate where your thinking stems from.

I personally think a fantastic watch collection would have a modern Submariner and a vintage one. In your case, maybe keep the Hulk, and keep the oldest Submariner. Alternatively, you could sell all your other Submariners find an iconic vintage one: either a red-Sub Date 1680, or if you prefer a no-date, a Ref 5513. I think that adds a depth to your collection while minimizing redundancy.

[jerryguo]

keep the 5 digits!


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[Seaswirl]

Not sure what other divers you have, but I’d flip one of your Subs for a 6 digit Sub, GMT or ExpII. The 6 digit references are, IMHO, so much better. Word of warning though, you’ll see current Rolex models every where too. Maybe look at other brands?

[IR201]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

Some thoughts: you seem to be stuck on how to reduce your collection (which I just looked at on another page).

Personally, I'd immediately discount what you think others think of your watches- not because their opinion is actually irrelevant, but because our perceptions isn't always accurate. Case in point:



They're not flashy. I wear a 126710BLRO and no one notices it. Somehow, I doubt a 6-digit ceramic watch is any more "flashy" by general population standards lol.

And as for date vs no-date, I'm not sure there's really evidence of one dominating the market over the other. I'd venture to say most here have seen about the same in the wild.

Nevertheless, I do see people who flaunt all ceramic sports models and it reflects somewhat of a dull taste, so I appreciate where your thinking stems from.

I personally think a fantastic watch collection would have a modern Submariner and a vintage one. In your case, maybe keep the Hulk, and keep the oldest Submariner. Alternatively, you could sell all your other Submariners find an iconic vintage one: either a red-Sub Date 1680, or if you prefer a no-date, a Ref 5513. I think that adds a depth to your collection while minimizing redundancy.

Thanks a lot for looking at the other page and taking the time to give really thoughtful insight! You are spot on. Really struggling with my collection in terms of increasing diversity. After some deliberation I've tentatively landed on using the 5 digit subs for one or more other pieces, so I wanted to create a thread specifically on my personal 5 digit sub debate (hopefully this means I am closer to a decision!).

The flashy thing I get yeah. Read so many conflicting reports about the BLRO. Some say it sparkles like a disco ball due to the jubilee, others (like you) say it is the same as any other SS. I don't really care THAT MUCH about flashy to be honest, I used to though, which I think in part is what drove me to so many black divers in the first place. But I broke through the color issue with my bluesy pick up, and now I'm craving more color/variety (not necessarily more PM).

The way I see it, the 5 digit subs could transform into a BLRO, which would add red and blue but also be yet another black face. Or they could become like a yachtmaster blue AND white OP 39 - but then, did I just trade two icons for depreciating assets? I hate to make value part of this, and I wouldn't if i knew id have the new pieces forever, but I do get bored fairly easily so I try to ensure some value retention in order to have more possibilities in terms of other watches.

[IR201]

Originally Posted by Seaswirl

Not sure what other divers you have, but I’d flip one of your Subs for a 6 digit Sub, GMT or ExpII. The 6 digit references are, IMHO, so much better. Word of warning though, you’ll see current Rolex models every where too. Maybe look at other brands?

I've tried other brands (breitling, omega, tudor, grand seiko) and nothing feels as quality as the newer Rolexes to me. Before I get killed for that, this mostly came down the the clasp/fit (though to be fair I though breitling was pretty good there).

[Hutrmila]

16710 Pepsi on Jubilee ... part of my collection of 5 where rest is 6 digit ... the change from “maxi” case to classier slender case is great change and so different feel once a while; 5 digit was great leap in movement and sturdiness of watch ... not diminishing the patina attraction and importance of 4 digit era though ... but 5 digit to me is about sleeker design and preciseness along with new materials ... I have rather smaller wrist 6,7 inch what makes prior-to-maxi case design fitting me just right ... didn’t probably answer your questions but added another viewpoint on subject ... I’d sell only if wrist time goes down significantly ...

Cheers


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[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by IR201

Read so many conflicting reports about the BLRO. Some say it sparkles like a disco ball due to the jubilee, others (like you) say it is the same as any other SS. I don't really care THAT MUCH about flashy to be honest, I used to though, which I think in part is what drove me to so many black divers in the first place. But I broke through the color issue with my bluesy pick up, and now I'm craving more color/variety (not necessarily more PM).

A couple things. Any watch enthusiast will immediately tell apart a BLRO from a Sub. I'm just saying that to the general public, neither is flashy. Having said that, yes, in the sunlight, the bezel teeth on my GMT shine well; it's actually one of my favorite features. Once one sees a handful of vintage GMTs with worn bezel teeth, one quickly realizes how much people take the bezel teeth for granted.

I argue that your collection will still feel redundant if you stack it up with sporty Rolexes; even with different colors, the same black dial with the same bezel theme sorta becomes the first thing you see. Of course, if this isn't a problem for you, cool. In my opinion, though, diversity goes far.

Originally Posted by IR201

The way I see it, the 5 digit subs could transform into a BLRO, which would add red and blue but also be yet another black face.

I (clearly) love the BLRO but with that BLNR next to it, I think it'd be quite redundant.

Originally Posted by IR201

Or they could become like a yachtmaster blue AND white OP 39 - but then, did I just trade two icons for depreciating assets?

If you plan on evolving your collection, yes- although for some reason people love the OP39 and it's becoming more challenging to find. Personally I'd wait until Rolex releases a white Explorer I and swap your black dial ExpI for it, and use the Subs for something else.

Originally Posted by IR201

I hate to make value part of this, and I wouldn't if i knew id have the new pieces forever, but I do get bored fairly easily so I try to ensure some value retention in order to have more possibilities in terms of other watches.

Valid reasoning. Like others have said, I do recommend trying different watch brands. And you don't have to buy them brand new, either- you can get big value (and retain it, too) if you buy a discounted or used JLC.

[nicon]

Originally Posted by IR201

They are the most copied, homaged watches - at this point I could prob get the same look with a homage (sorry!) while using the $$ towards something only Rolex can pull off (and arguably that includes maxi cases, sorry!).

Are you sure about that? I would rather say fake creators are focusing now on SubCs with quite good results and are only getting better.

This video is from 2017, but you can google on replicas forums how good they are right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ZTqC2Yxxs

[Dr. Robert]

Originally Posted by jerryguo

keep the 5 digits!


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I concur

[IR201]

Originally Posted by nicon

Are you sure about that? I would rather say fake creators are focusing now on SubCs with quite good results and are only getting better.

This video is from 2017, but you can google on replicas forums how good they are right now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_ZTqC2Yxxs

Meant more homage like Squales etc. Wasn't talking about fakes.

[IR201]

Originally Posted by daOnlyBG

A couple things. Any watch enthusiast will immediately tell apart a BLRO from a Sub. I'm just saying that to the general public, neither is flashy. Having said that, yes, in the sunlight, the bezel teeth on my GMT shine well; it's actually one of my favorite features. Once one sees a handful of vintage GMTs with worn bezel teeth, one quickly realizes how much people take the bezel teeth for granted.

I argue that your collection will still feel redundant if you stack it up with sporty Rolexes; even with different colors, the same black dial with the same bezel theme sorta becomes the first thing you see. Of course, if this isn't a problem for you, cool. In my opinion, though, diversity goes far.


I (clearly) love the BLRO but with that BLNR next to it, I think it'd be quite redundant.


If you plan on evolving your collection, yes- although for some reason people love the OP39 and it's becoming more challenging to find. Personally I'd wait until Rolex releases a white Explorer I and swap your black dial ExpI for it, and use the Subs for something else.

Valid reasoning. Like others have said, I do recommend trying different watch brands. And you don't have to buy them brand new, either- you can get big value (and retain it, too) if you buy a discounted or used JLC.

Thanks again for the extremely thought out response!! Feel like I've got a personal watch counselor experience lol. You make some great points. I think you're right that I would still feel redundancy with a BLRO.

[H25B]

I’d sure like to have a 5 digit Sub that’s good condition mechanically but maybe a little beat up just to put on a NATO strap for casual wear. I LOVE my 116610, handling the old vs. new just hands down makes me prefer the ceramic however. They’re just more robust but still have the bulletproof 3135 movement which will make an updated one a LOT less desirable to me.

[daOnlyBG]

Originally Posted by IR201

Thanks again for the extremely thought out response!! Feel like I've got a personal watch counselor experience lol. You make some great points. I think you're right that I would still feel redundancy with a BLRO.

Anytime. Feel free to PM me if you'd like more input.

[Nikrnic]

I wouldnt be in a rush to sell any 5 dgt. You know what you have and they would be tougher to replace not knowing exactly what they have if you do try to replace plus prices are holding if not going up. You can always sell them in the future if you definitely want to make that move. Keep them for now until you really know what you want to do. I recently replaced a 14060m and I've had those thoughts so I just put it in the safe for now.

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[jrs146]

Sell a 5-digit? Hummmm. Not if it’s your only one. Everyone needs at least one 5 banger.

[Car32]

I had a similar journey. Sub dates everywhere 5 and 6 digit where I live. Really liked the look but didnt like the fat that everyone had one. Eventually got a 6 digit no-date due to the symmetry and that it was less common. Really nice watch but when picked up a BLNR, sold it as the BLNR is basically the same style, has a splash of color and a GMT function which I love. I occasionally miss the Sub but only when i see pics on Instagram, otherwise the BLNR is stylistically basically the same watch but better due to splash of color, function, and less common.

Since then picked up a polar explorer II 5 digit and LOVED the proportions relative to the 6 digit on my ~6.5/6.75” wrist. I hear what you’re saying about the bracelet but I got one with solid end links and virtually no stretch. It feels as solid as the 6 digit bracelet other than the clasp itself which is no big deal, so if your 5 digits dont have the solid end links that could be a big difference maker.

Ive since picked up a 5 digit GMT Master. Same love of proportions and will pick up a black insert for when I feel like really imitating the look of a sub.

Moral of the story: started with and loved 6 digit, came to really like 5 digit for the proportions, and SEL versions means you dont have to give up too much in terms of bracelet feel.

In terms of getting a cheaper alternative to a sub, I might do that too, mainly to use with various straps which I would like to do with my rolex but am scared to death of damaging lugs when changing. With a a cheaper alternative watch, I wont really care.

Hope this helps!

[subboi]

I have the 4, 5 & 6 digits .. all wear quite differently ... i rotate them regularly .. wouldn't want to get rid of any .. but having said that, the matt dials with patina is something to drool over ...

[IR201]

Both 5 digits have moved on. Love the look but for the reasons I mentioned I had to make a change.

BLRO on the way. Another black dial yes, but a new pop of color for the collection and my first Rolex jubilee experience.

Will post pic when it arrives.