Why does Lange's 2nd market price is so weak?!!

[solowarrior]

Hello everyone,

Can anyone please explain to me why the hell Lange's 2nd market price is so dramatically lower than RMSP? It is typically 35%+, even 50~60% for older models.

Everyone knows their quality comparable to PP, or even better. Their annual production is much less than PP, so I assume there should be a very high demand, which would usually make the better resale value. I don't understand what is going on there. Bad management or marketing?

Thanks!

[dchang81]

Most dress watches on straps don't really hold their value. There are exceptions of course. After that initial hit ALS does seem hold on fairly well.

[Slider817]

Pateks dress watches don’t hold their value all that well either. Not really sure why the market is how it is. Quality is not the biggest driver of value on the secondary market.

Check out Breguet, super quality but enormous discounts can be had on the secondary. Many other brands have similar issues.

[Patton250]

Originally Posted by Slider817

Pateks dress watches don’t hold their value all that well either. Not really sure why the market is how it is. Quality is not the biggest driver of value on the secondary market.

Check out Breguet, super quality but enormous discounts can be had on the secondary. Many other brands have similar issues.

Great post. Totally accurate.

[sambb]

dress by cellini, lange, patek, vacheron, breguet, AP dress, omega, cartier - all do poorly on secondary market, but that is the NORM. Rolex is an exception to the rule. So maybe they dont do poorly, they just do the norm./

Used watches, used cars, used boats all depreciate. Some rolex models are jsut exceptions.

[Tools]

Used stuff generally doesn't have good resale.

Rolex and a few others are the exceptions, not the rule, so Lange is typical. Really, how many people do you run across that are looking for a used Lange or Tag, etc., unless it's well priced.

[NYG1121]

Buy Lange to enjoy. Not flip. Unless it is an Odysseus. Apparently.

[2nastie]

Originally Posted by Tools

Used stuff generally doesn't have good resale.

Rolex and a few others are the exceptions, not the rule, so Lange is typical. Really, how many people do you run across that are looking for a used Lange or Tag, etc., unless it's well priced.

Exactly. 100% agree. It should be noted that any pre-owned goods should in theory trade lower than their original MSRP (as it's used... just like car). How much it trades under depends on the demand (popularity), supply, etc.

This should be the normal.

What is currently happening with Rolex (in particular sport watches) is an anomaly. Demand is/appears to be far exceeding supply therefore prices are selling above MSRP.


...


Also I have to say, optically being owned by a watch conglomerate like Richemont often yield lesser values as people tend to think corporate companies (with multiple watch brands under their umbrella) put lesser values or attention into their individual brands than family owned businesses.

[illiguy]

I’m thankful to have acquired my ALS at secondary price. Insane value.

[Dj_masse]

Originally Posted by Tools

Used stuff generally doesn't have good resale.

Rolex and a few others are the exceptions, not the rule, so Lange is typical. Really, how many people do you run across that are looking for a used Lange or Tag, etc., unless it's well priced.

I can vouch that the Cellini does not do well on secondary markets. Lol. It’s a gorgeous watch though and I truly loved it but fortunately I got a great discount from my AD therefore I broke even when I needed to sell it.




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[EdwardC]

I guess the exceptions to dress watches that depreciate are some independent brands. Like FPJ. Even their dress watches are holding good value now

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by EdwardC

I guess the exceptions to dress watches that depreciate are some independent brands. Like FPJ. Even their dress watches are holding good value now

There's a powerful hype machine reality distortion field surrounding FPJ right now.

That said, their timepieces truly are incredible.

[cascavel]

Because the secondary market discounts the value of the precious metal in the watch to bullion weight whereas the manufacturer markets it at 2 to 4 times bullion weight.
As an example, a SS Daytona retails for $14K whereas an 18 carat gold Daytona with about $10K of gold in it retails for about $37K. There's about a $13K vig in the delta between the two watches. A few years ago the secondary market used to wash out most of the difference but now, with the popularity of ANY Daytona, that is not true, but it remains true of most watches.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by solowarrior

Hello everyone,

Can anyone please explain to me why the hell Lange's 2nd market price is so dramatically lower than RMSP? It is typically 35%+, even 50~60% for older models.

Everyone knows their quality comparable to PP, or even better. Their annual production is much less than PP, so I assume there should be a very high demand, which would usually make the better resale value. I don't understand what is going on there. Bad management or marketing?

Thanks!

I have to say as a buyer of Lange pieces, both new and old, I don't see the sort of drops you are talking about being a general rule. I have two pieces purchased new in the last couple of years that are now both worth a lot more on the secondary market than I paid (I paid list) and two older pieces where I paid well over list - in one case more than double. As always, buy what you like and enjoy an amazing time piece.

[GoingPlaces]

Lange price go where they watch price are supposed to go. We have just become used to the Rolex and PP sports frenzy that has watches going the other way which is an anomaly.

[solowarrior]

Looks like buying Lange as used is a golden rule... lol

[2bigalow]

In the past this may have been true, but I think collectors are relizing the true horological value of Lange and prices are slowly creeping up. I was looking at Langmatik Sax-o-mats (big date) about 6 month ago and one could be obtained for about $15k, now they hover around the $18k mark. They also seem to be a bit more scarce. A. Lange & Sohne are fantastic watches and IMO they should be part of the trinity. Well, I guess that would make it a quaternity.

[EEpro]

Originally Posted by 2bigalow

In the past this may have been true, but I think collectors are relizing the true horological value of Lange and prices are slowly creeping up. I was looking at Langmatik Sax-o-mats (big date) about 6 month ago and one could be obtained for about $15k, now they hover around the $18k mark. They also seem to be a bit more scarce. A. Lange & Sohne are fantastic watches and IMO they should be part of the trinity. Well, I guess that would make it a quaternity.

And they are German not Swiss so there's that.

[fullofboats]

I think the pre-owned discount is narrowing. 12 months ago a 403 pt datograph could be bought for $40k. Today no one will sell for less than $50k...

[Jocke]

One of the reasons is you can get a nice discount on a new one and then a used one will be priced after that.

[ROLEXROLEXROLEXRO]

Unless you're a collector, people in this segment are not looking for used watches. Thus demand is not there.

[Maxy]

Originally Posted by solowarrior

Hello everyone,

Can anyone please explain to me why the hell Lange's 2nd market price is so dramatically lower than RMSP? It is typically 35%+, even 50~60% for older models.

Everyone knows their quality comparable to PP, or even better. Their annual production is much less than PP, so I assume there should be a very high demand, which would usually make the better resale value. I don't understand what is going on there. Bad management or marketing?

Thanks!

Firstly the clientele for the watches at prices of ALS or PP are for uber rich folks. If they are rich then I would assume they would skip the pre-owned market especially if its strap watches unless it is some rare or discounted watch.

Even myself though not at these levels, I don't buy used watches on straps unless it comes with a new strap. Bracelets, I can give it a good wash and put on my wrist right away but straps I hate to wear after its worn and absorbs oils from the previous owner!

[GreenLantern]

Forgive me, but ALS and PP are hardly only for uber rich folks. Unless your definition of uber rich is different from mine.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by ROLEXROLEXROLEXRO

Unless you're a collector, people in this segment are not looking for used watches. Thus demand is not there.

Originally Posted by Maxy

Firstly the clientele for the watches at prices of ALS or PP are for uber rich folks. If they are rich then I would assume they would skip the pre-owned market especially if its strap watches unless it is some rare or discounted watch.

Even myself though not at these levels, I don't buy used watches on straps unless it comes with a new strap. Bracelets, I can give it a good wash and put on my wrist right away but straps I hate to wear after its worn and absorbs oils from the previous owner!

I assume both responses are tongue in cheek

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by Russell996

I assume both responses are tongue in cheek

[chiscott_29]

Originally Posted by fullofboats

I think the pre-owned discount is narrowing. 12 months ago a 403 pt datograph could be bought for $40k. Today no one will sell for less than $50k...

More WatchBox manipulation. They’re going to try and destroy Lange just like they have FPJ.

[tudorbaja27]

Supply vs. demand.

[fullofboats]

Originally Posted by chiscott_29

More WatchBox manipulation. They’re going to try and destroy Lange just like they have FPJ.

They may be a factor, but I don't think they're the driving force. They have 6 datographs (1st and 2nd gen) available, that's hardly enough to swing the entire market. The model's been around for 20 years so you have to imagine there are a few thousand datographs in the world. Reality is all the pt 403 pieces available in the 40s the past year have been sold and WB is the only one left with inventory.

[Pongster]

Because there is not much demand. And very expensive to begin with.

[Pongster]

And you can get a hefty discount from AD so better to buy new.