Box and paper?

[amphr1]

I know I should know this, but I'm actually not super clear on what constitute paper. Is the warranty card that came with the Rolex box paper? Is the user manual that comes with the box paper? Or does it need to be the sales receipt I get from the AD?

[Michael T]

Warranty card (or if older, the paper warranty) and owner’s manual. An original receipt would be even better, but I would expect at least the first two.

[amphr1]

So if someone has box and not paper, that's pretty suspicious right? Because I can't think of a time when I actually took any of those out of the box

[2nastie]

Box is whatever "box" it came in. And hopefully not too confusing, there is usually the solid wood/plastic box (green box for Rolex) and an outer carboard/paper box (the beige one for Rolex)

Paper is whatever documentation it came with. Could encompass warranty card (most new watches) or warranty papers (older models) and user manual(s). In Rolex I would say that green pouch it comes with is part of the "papers"

and one more category I would say that falls with B+P is the hand tags (but as well know, most are being kept by ADs now).

[2nastie]

Originally Posted by amphora001

So if someone has box and not paper, that's pretty suspicious right? Because I can't think of a time when I actually took any of those out of the box

It depends, to be honest I see a lot of those "dealers" (they call themselves at least... more like those who like to sell or flip watches as a hobby) strip the watches of their boxes but still send the "papers".

Mainly cause of extra shipping (both size, etc).

...

For your description, it could've been a watch that never came with it's original box and papers. And the Seller is just including a box with it. Rolex boxes are universal (other than the size for certain models), so it could be that situation.

[joli160]

Papers: original and unique warranty card which came with the watch and manuals. Latter are less important.
Original invoice is nice to have, especially for vintage.

Shops own, service papers or certificates of any kind have zero added value from a collectability point of view.

[amphr1]

Originally Posted by 2nastie

It depends, to be honest I see a lot of those "dealers" (they call themselves at least... more like those who like to sell or flip watches as a hobby) strip the watches of their boxes but still send the "papers".

Mainly cause of extra shipping (both size, etc).

That's an awful reason to not have a box.

[Michael T]

Originally Posted by amphora001

So if someone has box and not paper, that's pretty suspicious right? Because I can't think of a time when I actually took any of those out of the box

You can buy boxes on ebay, also owners manuals. But the papers, that’s another matter.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by amphora001

So if someone has box and not paper, that's pretty suspicious right? Because I can't think of a time when I actually took any of those out of the box

Not suspicious.

Many people do not care about the watch itself let alone the warranty documents

[2nastie]

Originally Posted by amphora001

That's an awful reason to not have a box.

Most consumers probably don't care too much. They after the watch. Can also be applied to the papers as well.

All these items are really not that important in the grand scheme of things (minus proof of warranty thus the warranty papers). They've only really became super important with the perceived value in this "investment" heavy mindset these days.

For me, Box and Papers are key, mainly because I like things neat and tidy (and probably my OCD kicking in). I want the complete set on a modern piece. I can live out both on a vintage piece.

[OG1982]

Originally Posted by amphora001

That's an awful reason to not have a box.

Dealers normally ship watches (to other grey dealers) with the papers only as they are unique to the watch, the box is not and dealers normally have a stockpile of these back at base, which will be supplied with the watch and papers when it finds its next home.

Believe it or not, there are people out there that buy a Rolex watch and don't give two hoots about the box or the warranty card. IMO, this doesn't make a watch a suspicious purchase. Always buy on condition and of course, buy if you trust the seller.

[amphr1]

Originally Posted by 2nastie

For me, Box and Papers are key, mainly because I like things neat and tidy (and probably my OCD kicking in). I want the complete set on a modern piece. I can live out both on a vintage piece.

Same here

[2loaded]

Straight from the circus:
https://youtu.be/Max5RyDrzns

[padi56]

Originally Posted by amphora001

So if someone has box and not paper, that's pretty suspicious right? Because I can't think of a time when I actually took any of those out of the box

Well in the real world the so called papers or plastic card are just a warranty document that you get with most items bought today.And again in the real world today these so called papers are far easier today to fake than the watches.So always buy from a reliable source but never rely on papers to always prove authenticity of any watch unless bought from a 100% reliable source.

[Andad]

You forgot the Bro’.

[Brandband]

Originally Posted by padi56

Well in the real world the so called papers or plastic card are just a warranty document that you get with most items bought today.And again in the real world today these so called papers are far easier today to fake than the watches.So always buy from a reliable source but never rely on papers to always prove authenticity of any watch unless bought from a 100% reliable source.

This crossed my mind too. Having the "warranty documents" doesn't really guarantee the authenticity of the watch as those can be forged and placed inside a box too. You just have to be really careful and buy from a trusted seller.

[Old Expat Beast]

'Papers' used to mean the warranty paper/certificate and the chronometer certificate, back in the day when Rolex cared to include the latter with the duly certified watch, rather than just a 50-cent plastic tag. Nowadays it's an outdated word that can just mean the warranty card (on newer watches). Booklets/manuals don't constitute any part of the 'papers' merely because they are printed on paper, nor store receipt neither, although it's all nice to have. 'Box and papers' can just be a box and card.

[WatchGuy1966]

Originally Posted by amphora001

So if someone has box and not paper, that's pretty suspicious right? Because I can't think of a time when I actually took any of those out of the box

To put the "papers" in the vault or some other filing system. People handle these things differently

[marmite2005]

Originally Posted by amphora001

So if someone has box and not paper, that's pretty suspicious right? Because I can't think of a time when I actually took any of those out of the box

I understand in the trade, a lot of watches are bought and sold by dealers with only papers. Usually in little plastic wallets containing watch/papers.
The boxes, hang tags and booklets are then traded separate.

It's only once the watch hits retail, that both get matched up. But not unusual at all that when sold retail, it's only a partial set.

I've seen this multiple times in back rooms of Hatton Garden, London

No idea, when / how / why they get split in the first place tho, especially new models.

[Turbo Racer]

I think for vintage it’s less important since over time, these things get lost. If you do have them, then you get a nice premium in price. For new(ish) stuff I almost always will want b&p due mainly to a concern that my purchase might be a stolen watch. I wouldn’t want one of those at any price. As stated above, this can be defeated with fake cards/papers, but it requires a level of sophistication and scheming that puts it less likely to occur for the kinds of watches I buy.

For the next level pieces. I would think anything over $200k, im probably wanting a jeweler or ad to authenticate my watch prior to purchase.

[Incroyable12]

Some boxes alone are worth more than many watches.

Try to find an original cork PP Nautilus box or the Greek urn that the Rolex King Midas came in. Auction houses actually sell them off as individual lots.