Thoughts on this late 60's 5512

[fizz]

First a disclaimer: a fellow vintage collector friend here in Dubai has been offered this 5512 by a local, reliable dealer. Dubai isn't exactly a haven for watch collecting and most here pursue modern watches so finding one locally has got both myself and my friend excited. While I am not looking at it (I have a lovely 5513 Maxi 3 but I also recently purchased a 116520 from the same seller), I am trying to help him out (he is very interested in this).

To my untrained eye, it looks very good, though the seller isn't too familiar with vintage (he mostly deals with modern as well). His price is "fair" and reflective of what I think is the going rate for these. He did say that he thinks it's a service dial from the 70's and may even have been relumed.

When I saw the watch in person while picking up my Daytona, under UV light it lit up and faded quickly/immediately and the very brief glow was consistent on both dial and hands.

Serial no is 1.8x dating it to 68.

Unfortunately, I can't tell if it's a service dial, later period incorrect dial, or a 100% period correct original dial. The crystal and insert are certainly later service replacements but the fact that it comes with a period correct rivet (dated 67 on the clasp) and also a box (which seems to also be period correct and has a 5512 sticker) makes this very enticing. No papers but those are rarely showstoppers in my book and the box thing is just fancy sprinkles on top.

The scholarship on 5512 is sparse, as compared to 5513 so I seek the wisdom and guidance of the knowledgeable folk here. What do you think is correct and what isn't? Ultimately, the decision to pursue will be my friends but we may all be a little bit more knowledgeable by the end of this.

Pics below (click to see full resolution).

[swaini3]

Probably a later dial IMO, I would expect a meters first matte dial on that. Do you have a straight shot of the dial without the hands covering any text?

[Avs Fan]

The spring bar on the lower crown side appears to be almost protruding from the lug hole indicating massive polishing if that matters.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by swaini3

Probably a later dial IMO, I would expect a meters first matte dial on that.

I agree, assuming that the serial/date are correct. The printing details on this dial look sort of similar to what one would see on a Maxi I dial. However, it's always preferable to post photos of everything so the information can be verified. Very often, people post faulty information, which causes confusion. Maybe the serial number is actually 5.8M.

[lupus66]

and one should expect dead lume on a ff dial

[1665fan]

Definitely needs laser welding…..

[swish77]

Case is not great, and the lug holes looked pushed in from polishing. They also look too big, although perhaps it's the angle in the photo.

Do you have a photo of the watch under the UV? Price?

[1665fan]

Service insert also

[Filipão]

Big pass

[swish77]

For comparison, this is what those crown guards would have looked like originally.

I get that most 40-50 year-old watches have been polished, and often there's nothing wrong with that. But there are also watches with cases that have been butchered, and that 5512 that's for sale falls into that category.

[fizz]

Hello everyone, I hear what you've said about the case and it does seem over-polished (I did notice the near protruding spring bar and it's even more apparent in the next picture below).

I don't have a lume shot but did personally inspect under UV. It isn't dead but glows and fades immediately. I also don't have a picture of the case with the serial no between lugs but have seen it and it is the serial stated above (1.8x).

Here's a pic of the dial without the hands obstructing the text and hope that's much clearer than the earlier ones (click to see full resolution).

[fizz]

And, to those that have asked, the final price, after much intense haggling by my friend, is at USD 13k.

[swish77]

That case is absolutely shot. I wouldn't buy it at any price unless you plan on parting it out.

[hutch300]

That case is terrible. I hope he didn't buy it - haggling to 13k is still not even close.

[offrdmania]

$13K is a lot for that $9k watch. It is going to require at least $1-2K in laser welding on that case along with a bracelet rebuild unless you have very small wrists.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

$13K is a lot for that $9k watch. It is going to require at least $1-2K in laser welding on that case along with a bracelet rebuild unless you have very small wrists.

Agree w the pricing, but, what’s wrong with the bracelet? It appears to have 12 links (possibly the 13th under the clasp) and, if anything, it would be too big for even a medium size wrist.

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Agree w the pricing, but, what’s wrong with the bracelet? It appears to have 12 links (possibly the 13th under the clasp) and, if anything, it would be too big for even a medium size wrist.

I may have counted that wrong, I thought it was a few links short


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[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

I may have counted that wrong, I thought it was a few links short


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Oh, trust me, between trying to get through the morning without coffee (long story) my reading glasses totally sucking and being of a weak magnification, I had to count those links 37 times to make sure I wasn’t seeing things.

[offrdmania]

Originally Posted by Kingface66

Oh, trust me, between trying to get through the morning without coffee (long story) my reading glasses totally sucking and being of a weak magnification, I had to count those links 37 times to make sure I wasn’t seeing things.

I glanced at it and saw the short side and figured it was a few down


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[Ascari_2]

While it's an addressable element, at 210 degrees of amplitude the movement is in dire need of service.

[fizz]

Thank you, everyone, immensely grateful for the collective feedback.

While I've passed on the gist of it to my friend, he went and saw the watch in person today and may move ahead with it anyway...

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by fizz

Thank you, everyone, immensely grateful for the collective feedback.

While I've passed on the gist of it to my friend, he went and saw the watch in person today and may move ahead with it anyway...

As a friend, you should tie him down to prevent all movement. Take away his credit card. Remove all cash from his person. Get his bank accounts frozen.

There are so many better examples if he has his heart set on a 5512.

[fizz]

So another (and hopefully final) update.

Common sense prevailed and my friend decided not to pursue this particular 5512. Your comments were invaluable (I sent him some of the response snippets and then he eventually read the whole thread) and he has decided to continue his search for either a 5513/5512/1680 and keep looking for the best specimen at the price he is realistically willing to spend.

This experience in dealing with the situation as it unfolded also made me realise something. When you've been looking for a watch for a long time and feel "priced out" by the market value of it (owing to your own self-imposed spending barriers), finding a watch that has an original dial, an original case and a (perhaps) put together "set" all locally available, even if they don't belong together, makes it seem very appealing. Part of this has to do with being able to aquire it immediately, after inspecting it in person, and the fact that ultimately, the watch is all original (even if it's cobbled together) is sufficiently satisfying to cure the collecting itch.