Is Panerai still relevant anymore (compared to Omega/Rolex)?

[donas]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

I think a lot of this has to do with Panerai attempting to break away from the Paneristi and into the more mainstream market

Sure, the movement downgrade and influx of smaller, less WR models is unappealing to the traditional Panerai fan, but data would suggest the traditional Panerai fan hasnt bought a new watch in years, and if they did, they didnt buy it direct from Panerai

If that's who you're trying to market too, you're doomed to fail, so they pivot to the non watch fan (the type who DOESNT frequent watch forums and F/Book groups) to provide an interesting alternative to Rolex/Tag/Tudor/IWC etc

They have unique design and they're leveraging that in addition towards their sustainability marketing, in order to generate buzz from people who just want a nice, interesting watch

Lets face is, if 47mm, Screw Down Back, SS tool watches were selling like hot cakes, Panerai would still be producing them

As someone who considers themselves a Panerai fan, I wouldnt buy one at retail (and there are newer models i'm interested in) as i know i can pick up a relative bargain by buying pre-owned/grey rather than pay the AD premium, so I'm part of the problem

If you dont evolve, your primary market ages out and dies and you're left with nothing

Does that mean Panerai is not longer relevant?
Well, that depends on how you define relevance
The mechanical wrist watch is largely irrelevant at the best of times
I'd argue that if you remove the principles of "value retention/appreciation" and "luxury branding" from Rolex, theyre not that relevant in 2022 outside of Horology fans and Hype Beasts

Well said, I definitely agree. Though I'm sure some will be clutching their pearls, I particularly agree with your thoughts on Rolex. I'm not sure what it is about Panerai, but it's definitely on my wrist far more than any of the other brands I own.

[Trogster]

I fear that after a series of bad corporate decisions, Panerai is long on its way to irrelevancy.

[yachty 1]

Originally Posted by Noxa

Some good points made in many of the posts, I think the way it’s being run then there likely isn’t much of a future, the amount of models is absurd, many serve literally no purpose, the downgrades to the movements, I had my heart set on a Submersible goldtech until the P.900 reared it’s ugly head, a £25k watch with that movement as it’s heart, you’d have to be mental to hand over the money. I have imo the perfect Panerai, and I’d like to acquire an early Submersible but other than that I’m done with the brand, I think early models will do well in the future but I certainly wouldn’t be buying a new one now. No matter if you love or hate their designs you can’t deny they fill a void in watchmaking, nothing else out there quite like a Panerai.

I agree with you . I was so happy to see the 44mm Submersibles were out. Then I saw what movement was used. I absolutely love the blue carbotech 44mm. 18000 usd for a generic undecorated movement a Hard NO THANK YOU! Still dumb founded why they use the 9010 in the luminors but in the Submersibles it's the p 900. This makes no sense.

[Noxa]

Could not agree more, Imo the latest Submersibles are to me some of the nicest looking watches going, a trick has definitely been missed with the submersible in my view, it should be iconic and it’s just not, well not in the way a Submariner is anyhow, these downgrades to what I see as their iconic model is beyond stupid, just makes zero sense. The issue is for a lot of people nowadays they don’t just want a case maker, they want a watch maker, the days of throwing an ETA into a lovely case and charging £8k are long gone in my view. Would you buy a Ferrari with a Hyundai engine as I most certainly wouldn’t.

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by Noxa

Could not agree more, Imo the latest Submersibles are to me some of the nicest looking watches going, a trick has definitely been missed with the submersible in my view, it should be iconic and it’s just not, well not in the way a Submariner is anyhow, these downgrades to what I see as their iconic model is beyond stupid, just makes zero sense. The issue is for a lot of people nowadays they don’t just want a case maker, they want a watch maker, the days of throwing an ETA into a lovely case and charging £8k are long gone in my view. Would you buy a Ferrari with a Hyundai engine as I most certainly wouldn’t.

Great points, but cars like the AC Cobra disprove the engine analogy.

[Noxa]

Hmmm this can’t be denied, can’t even begin to build an argument against that one! What a car.

[timepieceofmind]

Obviously personal opinion and styling plays into this. In my case, I love a lot of the 1950s case stylings. Will it hold value like a Rolex, no. Will it be a beautiful time piece to put on your wrist to enjoy, absolutely.


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[Trailboss516]

I'm having a difficult time finding a Panerai I like enough to want to buy. I'm finding most releases to have some funky aspect to them, either some weird dial addition, writing "eSteel", and switching up things every few months. It is as if the designers were basically told "Look, just try anything, if you can think it up, we'll produce it." I don't consider myself some staunch purist (my only PAMs were 312, 424, 372), but it's hard to get back to the brand at this point in time.

[321Forever]

I’m chiming in for a second time because…why not?

I was looking at some of the other Richemont watch houses and Panerai is a lot like them, meaning that they run more like lux fashion/jewelry houses that are appealing to anyone interested in the brand, rather than to the hard core fans. This makes sense in a way because the magnitude of the fan base relative to production is a lot smaller than for Rolex, PP, or even Omega with the Speedy Pro and Seamasters.

Cartier is a lux jewelry brand, but they sell iconic Tank watches at ~$3K USD with Quartz movements, some with solar charging. The automatic movements are “in-house” but really centrally Richemont (same as Panerai). They have a lot of models, but not as many as Panerai.

Piaget is more upmarket with the Altiplano, but the Polo S movement is only a little more nicely finished than the Cartier. They offer a more exclusive experience in their stores than Cartier, which sells handbags and housewares, so their boutiques are grander.

IWC has Mark XXs for ~$5K USD in a range of colors and their new in-house movement is basically a copy of the ETA 2824. They have a lot of models like Panerai, but have not made changes to most of their lines apart from the Pilot models. They still brand themselves as being more tech-horological, but this is more to the general watch lover and not the IWC brand lover. The IWC brand lover is missing the lack of advancement in the Ingenieur and Aquatimers.

ALS is spared from most of this. They keep plugging away with their hand finished cases and movements and their product line is fairly stable. Richemont views them as their PP competitor and as their production is small, they are trying not to screw it up. It would be pretty amusing to see a new white gold ALS Saxonia with a snap-on case back, housing a typical Richemont movement.

And this year, almost all of them now have a version of a quick release strap mechanism. As though Richemont decreed all brands will get them. Watch boxes are also scaled down now, too (which is great for the environment, but I did like those big white lux IWC ones).

Thus, Panerai has a lot of models to appeal to more people. To keep costs in check the movements are no longer worth showing. The consumer who wants one doesn’t care about the depth rating or screw in back either. They may be deciding between one of these and the returning Cartier Pasha.

What may be the value proposition of these brands are the storefront boutiques. They all are pleasant to visit. The sales staff are generally friendly and knowledgeable. I’m sure it feels great to buy a Must Tank in a Cartier boutique. This is a huge contrast to Rolex where you are always in an AD.

TL;DR? Summary- what’s happened at Panerai is like a lot of the other Richemont brands.