16700 Possible Purchase

[16710Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Ironically, I was just browsing IG, and the first thing that came into my feed was a nice Swiss-only 16700 for a fair price. I see these as relatively modern pre-owned watches and readily available in good condition. So just educate yourself, and buy a good one.

I'm working on that part, just trying to find one that's accurate.

[CTech]

Depending on where you are in Texas, local sales through Craigslist or similar sales sites are worth considering.

Although there are many on the forum who could give you a lot of reasons why they would never buy a watch in that way, there are also many successful stories of good quality watches bought like that.

With the pointers given to you from this forum about over polishing, serial numbers, inserts, dial variations, etc. you are in a good position to go and see some of these watches in person, talk to the owner, examine the papers/box and add to your knowledge base.

Looking at watches on the Internet and posting photos for others to assess is a good first step but you only really start to appreciate the subtleties of vintage watches when you can see them in real life and handle them.

To show that there are good deals still available, how about this 16710 in Austin for $11,800:

https://austin.craigslist.org/jwl/d/...596494914.html

This looks good enough in the photos to warrant a visit if you were fairly close, but in time you could also find others in similar condition in the Dallas, Houston or San Antonio areas.

[16710Guy]

Originally Posted by CTech

Depending on where you are in Texas, local sales through Craigslist or similar sales sites are worth considering.

Although there are many on the forum who could give you a lot of reasons why they would never buy a watch in that way, there are also many successful stories of good quality watches bought like that.

With the pointers given to you from this forum about over polishing, serial numbers, inserts, dial variations, etc. you are in a good position to go and see some of these watches in person, talk to the owner, examine the papers/box and add to your knowledge base.

Looking at watches on the Internet and posting photos for others to assess is a good first step but you only really start to appreciate the subtleties of vintage watches when you can see them in real life and handle them.

To show that there are good deals still available, how about this 16710 in Austin for $11,800:

https://austin.craigslist.org/jwl/d/...596494914.html

This looks good enough in the photos to warrant a visit if you were fairly close, but in time you could also find others in similar condition in the Dallas, Houston or San Antonio areas.

Thank you , I hadn't thought about that..something to look into. I've been more so interested in an avenue with safeguards on any issues like CHRONO24

[swish77]

Originally Posted by 16710Guy

Thank you , I hadn't thought about that..something to look into. I've been more so interested in an avenue with safeguards on any issues like CHRONO24

Buy from a reputable dealer with great reviews and you'll be fine.

Watch Recon is a good starting place for a search. I see about a half-dozen decent-looking 16700s listed over the past 14 days on various watch forums.

[16710Guy]

Any thoughts on this one? https://www.fogcityvintage.com/produ...ref-16700-gmt/

Or

https://www.fogcityvintage.com/wp-co...2/5H5A0025.jpg

[Dan S]

Every watch you show is poorly polished in my opinion, so I am realizing that's really not an issue for you. In which case, just go ahead and buy one that you like. Fog City is very reputable.

[16710Guy]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Every watch you show is poorly polished in my opinion, so I am realizing that's really not an issue for you. In which case, just go ahead and buy one that you like. Fog City is very reputable.

I guess I'm not very knowledgeable on polishing. Can you give me an example of one you'd purchase or that's not overly polished so I have a baseline..

[NickD1975]

The Fog City one is way better, even has a bit of chamfer still there.

To be honest the majority of 5 digit watches are going to have been polished, and likely lost their chamfers and maybe a bit of definition.

If the look of a polished case doesn't bother you, the main thing to make sure is that you don't overpay - my 16710 has been polished more than once before I owned it, ands is a little soft but I made sure I didn't pay what an unpolished full set would be.

[16710Guy]

Originally Posted by NickD1975

The Fog City one is way better, even has a bit of chamfer still there.

To be honest the majority of 5 digit watches are going to have been polished, and likely lost their chamfers and maybe a bit of definition.

If the look of a polished case doesn't bother you, the main thing to make sure is that you don't overpay - my 16710 has been polished more than once before I owned it, ands is a little soft but I made sure I didn't pay what an unpolished full set would be.

Thank you. After 20+ years I think it's reasonable to accept that a watch has been polished some with that type of time and wear just like a collector car, most 30+ year old collector cars probably has had some work done to it and it's harder and harder to find one that's all original and if it is, it probably has quite a bit of patina.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by 16710Guy

After 20+ years I think it's reasonable to accept that a watch has been polished some with that type of time and wear just like a collector car, most 30+ year old collector cars probably has had some work done to it and it's harder and harder to find one that's all original and if it is, it probably has quite a bit of patina.

Yes, this is true, but not all polished watches are the same. Some are butchered, and some are very well done. Most are in the middle. The more you see, the more you'll be able to tell the difference.

Two main tells on poorly polished and/or overly polished watches: Lug holes that are concave, and crown guards that have lost that slightly angled ridge line.

The Fog City example is not too bad, and Tim has a good reputation. You'll see that the lugs have been polished and this lug hole has a hint of that inward appearance, but the crown guards retain their original shape.

[16710Guy]

Originally Posted by swish77

Yes, this is true, but not all polished watches are the same. Some are butchered, and some are very well done. Most are in the middle. The more you see, the more you'll be able to tell the difference.

Two main tells on poorly polished and/or overly polished watches: Lug holes that are concave, and crown guards that have lost that slightly angled ridge line.

The Fog City example is not too bad, and Tim has a good reputation. You'll see that the lugs have been polished and this lug hole has a hint of that inward appearance, but the crown guards retain their original shape.

Again, you're very helpful. I very much appreciate and respect your knowledge.

[ADINVA]

Originally Posted by springer

558 end links are not intended for GMTs. They are for Datejusts and possibly other similar models. Insert is non original.

Non-original means FBI? Fake insert? Beautify by artificially ageing? Incorrect period?

[karleone]

Don't rush! Wait for a nice example and pull the trigger! Tropicalwatch has regularly GMTs 16700/ 16710 and he is very transparent on wether the xatch has been polished or not plus the polisher he is working with is doing a very good job. For example these two that are already sold and the polishing job is very nice: thick case, nice chamfers, nice V brushing on lugs, fat crown guards

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/kpj4

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/fira

[springer]

My perspective is not quite the same as some of the later posts here regarding case/lug polishing. Most polished watches will lose the original sharpness on the lug chamfers - especially 30 and 40-year-old watches. It is more the norm than not.

Additionally, based on my years of experience and ownership of many Rolex models, most vintage and semi vintage unpolished watch cases are not in the best of condition anyway. Finding stellar or above average condition examples are not common and a rare find indeed. For me, a properly polished case is always a bonus when found.

[springer]

Originally Posted by ADINVA

Non-original means FBI? Fake insert? Beautify by artificially ageing? Incorrect period?

Sorry, but you totally lost me.

[Kingface66]

Originally Posted by springer

Sorry, but you totally lost me.

I think he means, in what manner is it non-original.
1. It’s authentic and correct for the period but artificially aged.
2. It’s authentic but the wrong period (later) for the watch
3. Altogether a fake insert.

[16710Guy]

Originally Posted by karleone

Don't rush! Wait for a nice example and pull the trigger! Tropicalwatch has regularly GMTs 16700/ 16710 and he is very transparent on wether the xatch has been polished or not plus the polisher he is working with is doing a very good job. For example these two that are already sold and the polishing job is very nice: thick case, nice chamfers, nice V brushing on lugs, fat crown guards

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/kpj4

https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/fira

Thank you for the encouragement! I'll keep my eye out for sure. The hunt is fun but I'm ready to find "the one"

[16710Guy]

Originally Posted by springer

My perspective is not quite the same as some of the later posts here regarding case/lug polishing. Most polished watches will lose the original sharpness on the lug chamfers - especially 30 and 40-year-old watches. It is more the norm than not.

Additionally, based on my years of experience and ownership of many Rolex models, most vintage and semi vintage unpolished watch cases are not in the best of condition anyway. Finding stellar or above average condition examples are not common and a rare find indeed. For me, a properly polished case is always a bonus when found.

I agree, for me as long as it's not a hack job and it ticks the right boxes and everything is original/accurate, then I'm good.

[16710Guy]

Anyone buy from them / have opinions on this one?

https://www.craftandtailored.com/col...ef-16700-pepsi

Is the insert not authentic since some of the numbers aren't serif, like the 2 and the 10?

[CTech]

Based on other threads where this was questioned, I think an insert with no serif on the 2 and the 1 in 10 is genuine and correct for a certain time period around 1989 to 1990.

These threads discuss such inserts and have examples of others exactly like the one you have posted:

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=853239

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=807640

The watch you have posted looks to be the best one so far out of the three or four you have shown, and I doubt whether you will find one better, bearing in mind Springer's comments a few posts up about the typical or average condition of 20+ year old 16700/16710 watches.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by 16710Guy

Anyone buy from them / have opinions on this one?

https://www.craftandtailored.com/col...ef-16700-pepsi

Despite what the listing says, I suspect the hands have been replaced and the mismatch in patina would bug me. Depends how picky you are. The case looks nice.

If you're OK with a luminova dial, this one below looks to be a nice example, and a full set to boot. (I've heard of the vendor but know nothing about them.)

https://www.horologyhour.com/product...0&_ss=e&_v=1.0

[16710Guy]

Originally Posted by swish77

Despite what the listing says, I suspect the hands have been replaced and the mismatch in patina would bug me. Depends how picky you are. The case looks nice.

If you're OK with a luminova dial, this one below looks to be a nice example, and a full set to boot. (I've heard of the vendor but know nothing about them.)

https://www.horologyhour.com/product...0&_ss=e&_v=1.0

Thanks you, I'm more into the tritium idea but I'll definitely consider that one you posted since it's a little more unique being a swiss only and then the papers and box and everything as well. I appreciate your help on this journey!

[karleone]

Originally Posted by 16710Guy

Anyone buy from them / have opinions on this one?

https://www.craftandtailored.com/col...ef-16700-pepsi

Is the insert not authentic since some of the numbers aren't serif, like the 2 and the 10?

Insert is authentic. There are full serif and serif where 2 and 10 are not serif

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I don't think you can change your username ... just sayin'.

I think he can….just sayin’.

[karleone]

Originally Posted by swish77

Despite what the listing says, I suspect the hands have been replaced and the mismatch in patina would bug me. Depends how picky you are. The case looks nice.

If you're OK with a luminova dial, this one below looks to be a nice example, and a full set to boot. (I've heard of the vendor but know nothing about them.)

https://www.horologyhour.com/product...0&_ss=e&_v=1.0

Nice example!

[ryansoulsit]

just PM's you some great infos.

GL!