The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Vintage Rolex Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 15 March 2023, 10:10 PM   #1
Zeus6542
"TRF" Member
 
Zeus6542's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 22
How to chose a vintage sub?

Hi everyone - I know this issue has been discussed and yes, I have done a cursory search, read some posts etc... but I'm new to this vintage sub market and trying gather data before I pull the trigger. It appears very difficult to find pristine pieces, but am finding pieces with various replacement parts (bezels, PIPs, bracelets etc...) through various price ranges from $16,895USDs up to $23,995 USDs.

Is there anything that's a real deal breaker like replacement hands etc... ?

Thanks in advance for any insight you can give.
JP

P.s. Here's a collection I'm looking at: 5513, 5513, 1680, 5512 ALL have replacement bracelets. The 5513 second in from far left a replacement bezel.
Name:  Rolex.Subs.5513.5513.1680.5512.small.jpg
Views: 289
Size:  99.0 KB
Zeus6542 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 March 2023, 11:16 PM   #2
Dan S
2024 Pledge Member
 
Dan S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Colorado, USA
Posts: 6,289
Everyone has a different tolerance for replacement parts and condition, you will have to keep learning until you can decide for yourself what you can tolerate and what you enjoy. Personally, I don't mind a replacement bracelet or crown, but anything else would be enough for me to think twice, and I would have to carefully evaluate whether I like the watch in its current state, or whether I'm willing to spend the time and money on restoration.

Frankly, the same is true of condition. As you mentioned, most 50 year old watches are not pristine, but joy can sometimes be had from watches that are not perfect. Again, everyone is different, and our tolerance for aging and wear is highly varied. You will see this across the members of the forum if you pay attention and participate regularly. It also depends on the watch, its rarity and age, etc.

Most important is your own personal assessment of the appeal of the watch, and nobody can tell you whether to like a watch or not. Some people will not enjoy a watch unless the case lines are sharp and original. Others particularly like yellowed tritium lume, or a faded bezel. It would be best for you to learn what you like.

Perhaps you might consider spending a few years learning about collecting vintage watches in a lower market segment. That would give you the chance to experience buying, selling, and trading by handling many watches in person. You will get some experience with the challenges that come with old mechanical objects that have often been tampered with, and learn about your own preferences in a tangible way. Live with vintage watches for a while, and you will see which ones you tend to choose each morning, and which stay in the drawer. I think that's what most collectors do, we don't typically jump in and ask "which $20k watch should I invest in?"
__________________
@oldwatchdan on IG
Dan S is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 15 March 2023, 11:28 PM   #3
swish77
2024 Pledge Member
 
swish77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Real Name: Aaron
Location: CT/NYC
Watch: ing the time!
Posts: 6,999
Agree with the above ... I don't ever buy (or not buy) a watch based on a bracelet. It's like tires on a car and can be sorted out later if you want. Also, a bezel insert can be sourced separately afterward, so that's never a deal-breaker (although definitely a cost factor). I never buy anything with a damaged, replaced, relumed or refinished dial or hands, or if it has a weak case, even if it's a bargain.

Of the watches listed above, I'd vote for the 5512 on the far right, despite the small photo. Appears to have a nice fat case and appealing patina, although you'd need to do a lot more vetting to make sure all is good.
swish77 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16 March 2023, 03:16 AM   #4
swaini3
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Real Name: Mo
Location: Dubai
Watch: 1675 GMT, DRSD
Posts: 1,459
Wise words above. Learn and learn about the reference before you buy. With value in mind, give more priority to period correct parts and condition of case, dial and hands...
swaini3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16 March 2023, 03:33 AM   #5
TuRo
"TRF" Member
 
TuRo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Real Name: Paul
Location: Cantabrigia - G.B
Watch: ing the detectives
Posts: 2,832
Only test I use is age/originality - I.e. how close to ground zero is it (ceteris paribus).....and of course budget (I never buy a watch at 5 yrs times value) . So for me the oldest you can get to 53 is best and work upwards from there. Personally ORIGINALITY then rarity and age top trump even condition for me on a Rolex like say a sub - others favour condition!
__________________
Thieves and fools and long travelled soldiers, A candid light exposes their homes. Human falter, people bellowed from their homes. And houses, there's fools and long reigning pharaohs.

IT BITES - Yellow Christian
TuRo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 March 2023, 09:29 PM   #6
zapokee
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Japan
Posts: 4,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by TuRo View Post
...I never buy a watch at 5 yrs times value
Sounds interesting, but can you give an examlpe to illustrate?
zapokee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 March 2023, 09:33 PM   #7
cascavel
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Santa Fe
Posts: 1,899
#4. Just based on looks.
cascavel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 March 2023, 11:11 PM   #8
TuRo
"TRF" Member
 
TuRo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Real Name: Paul
Location: Cantabrigia - G.B
Watch: ing the detectives
Posts: 2,832
Quote:
Originally Posted by zapokee View Post
Sounds interesting, but can you give an examlpe to illustrate?
Yes some people are paying what a watch might be worth in 5 yrs rather than a keen trade price at moment eg Maxi £20k, 16520 £45k, 16710 £20k .....I just don't go there thats all !!
__________________
Thieves and fools and long travelled soldiers, A candid light exposes their homes. Human falter, people bellowed from their homes. And houses, there's fools and long reigning pharaohs.

IT BITES - Yellow Christian
TuRo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16 March 2023, 11:54 PM   #9
Cooper33
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: New York
Posts: 385
One thing that has become a trend in vintage markets is to advertise the watch with original dial and hands but then add "hands have been colored to match the dial". A set of tritium hands in good condition, and especially one that matches the color of your dial, are really tricky - and expensive - to find, so I usually go for pieces that have never been relumed, even if they were replaced in the past and have developed a different patina than the dial.
Cooper33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 March 2023, 12:07 AM   #10
HERITAGE82
"TRF" Member
 
HERITAGE82's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 3,438
From the watches above the 5512 is the most appealing.
__________________
- Rolex Explorer - 214270
- Tudor Black Bay - 79230B
- Tudor Chronograph - 79270P
- Breitling Chronomat - 10th Anniv.
- Huguenin Freres Speedmaster Prototype
HERITAGE82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 March 2023, 10:48 PM   #11
harry in montreal
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Montreal
Watch: The Habs pick 1st!
Posts: 3,589
The first three have mushy crown guards and the inserts look newer. Even the 5512 has soft crown guards. Study the photos of the crown guards on hq Milton and you will start to figure out the superior v inferior shape
harry in montreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 March 2023, 11:33 PM   #12
Tricolore66
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: USA
Posts: 1,139
Everyone is different, but my hot buttons are original case with minimal polish and thick lugs, original dial and hands (or at least hands that match the color of the dial plots, and no major deep scratches. If you want to actually wear it often, I’d take off the original bracelet and put it in n a newer one, if only for security on the wrist.
Tricolore66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 March 2023, 03:30 AM   #13
Zeus6542
"TRF" Member
 
Zeus6542's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 22
Great advice everyone, thank you. Please keep it coming.

As for polishing, how do they actually do it that would wear down the crown guards? Do these use polishing wheel?

JP
Zeus6542 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 March 2023, 04:02 AM   #14
TuRo
"TRF" Member
 
TuRo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2022
Real Name: Paul
Location: Cantabrigia - G.B
Watch: ing the detectives
Posts: 2,832
From a soupçon of a light polishing cloth to a bastard file and anywhere inbetween it would appear !
__________________
Thieves and fools and long travelled soldiers, A candid light exposes their homes. Human falter, people bellowed from their homes. And houses, there's fools and long reigning pharaohs.

IT BITES - Yellow Christian
TuRo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 March 2023, 06:27 AM   #15
hutch300
2024 SubLV41 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Real Name: Jeff
Location: PNW
Posts: 1,482
Do you already have a sub? The no date options have very different appeal than the 1680 will. It would be great to know more of what you are after than to eval the 4 pics provided.
hutch300 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

My Watch LLC

WatchesOff5th

DavidSW Watches

Takuya Watches

OCWatches

Asset Appeal

Wrist Aficionado


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.