Arnold Schwarzenegger's detention by Customs in Germany

[sm84]

Hi All,

This is probably old news but I didnt get a chance to post here and check if anyone who has travelled understands why Schwarzenegger had to declare his watch? See (https://www.cbsnews.com/news/arnold-...-luxury-watch/)

Per my understanding he is a US citizen and was visiting Austria. I am not sure if he holds residency there and if that is the reason for this escalating to a criminal case.

As a tourist, does one have to declare a watch and pay duties and taxes?

For those who may have read my previous post, I too had a similar experience but thankfully avoided taxes and got back home safely.

This news has not helped my anxiety with travel and I'd like to know if there is anyone out there who truly has knowledge and info on when something should and shouldn't be declared. The right circumstances and the right process.

My understanding is that these duties and taxes are applicable to those who are residents or are citizens of a particular country but not to tourists but I could be wrong.

I travel with moderate frequency internationally from the US and I do wear my Rolex but my last experience and news like this makes me want to be more aware. I can't afford to pay duties and taxes to every country I visit [sigh]

I am sure there are others who might be having similar thoughts or questions, so thought I'd ask and see if folks have any info. Thanks

[~JJ]

He was taking an AP in to a country for a charity auction and didn’t declare it. If he was wearing a personal piece, then he would have been fine.

[Tools]

Yes it is old news.

The key here is that he was bringing in a watch to auction - essentially importing it. This requires duty, like any other country.

Simply travelling into another country incurs no duty. Now, if you have a new one with all the tags and boxes you may have to prove you were not there to sell it.

[sm84]

Originally Posted by ~JJ

He was taking an AP in to a country for a charity auction and didn’t declare it. If he was wearing a personal piece, then he would have been fine.

Interestingly, he apparently was never asked to declare and was not even given a declaration form.

I've personally experienced this where no declaration form was given or there was an opportunity to declare.

Ive been reading up on the import rules for other countries like Canada and the US and I see similar notes that imply one has to declare, but it isn't clear if it is also applicable to Foreigners and/or Tourists. Its definintely applicable to residents and Citizens.

For returning US citizens and PR's there is a CBP form 4457 Certificate of Registration for Personal Effects Taken Abroad which can prevent customs from asking you to prove the origins of a valuable item as it would have been declared and noted before you even travel. A similar form exists for Canadians as well, but no process has been defined for Tourists and non-residents (I could be wrong)

[sm84]

Originally Posted by Tools

Yes it is old news.

The key here is that he was bringing in a watch to auction - essentially importing it. This requires duty, like any other country.

Simply travelling into another country incurs no duty. Now, if you have a new one with all the tags and boxes you may have to prove you were not there to sell it.

Anyone could potentially sell, even if their intentions aren't made public, right? How would the distinction between importing and personal use be made in such a case? Does one have to declare at the time of entry to be safe? This is what confuses me.

The only other factor I can think of is being a Citizen/Resident of the country you are visiting.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by sm84

Anyone could potentially sell, even if their intentions aren't made public, right? How would the distinction between importing and personal use be made in such a case? Does one have to declare at the time of entry to be safe? This is what confuses me.

The only other factor I can think of is being a Citizen/Resident of the country you are visiting.

The distinction is clear - non-resident but leave it there it is imported. If you are a resident and bought it out of country, but bring it in for personal use, you need to pay import tax.

If you suddenly decide to sell while in a foreign country, you have "imported" the item and are liable for any import tax and duty. Just because you don't make it public doesn't change the law. If you declare at entry "to be safe" makes no sense. Why would you incur those costs for no reason?

It doesn't matter if you are a resident or visitor/tourist. If the item has not been properly imported and is left there, you are in violation of the law.

[~JJ]

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...Schwarzenegger

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthre...Schwarzenegger

[Crob1]

Originally Posted by Tools

The distinction is clear - non-resident but leave it there it is imported. If you are a resident and bought it out of country, but bring it in for personal use, you need to pay import tax.

If you suddenly decide to sell while in a foreign country, you have "imported" the item and are liable for any import tax and duty. Just because you don't make it public doesn't change the law. If you declare at entry "to be safe" makes no sense. Why would you incur those costs for no reason?

It doesn't matter if you are a resident or visitor/tourist. If the item has not been properly imported and is left there, you are in violation of the law.

Admittedly I didn't know this much about this. Thanks for sharing this information.


Sent from my A5_Pro using Tapatalk

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Crob1

Admittedly I didn't know this much about this. Thanks for sharing this information.


Sent from my A5_Pro using Tapatalk

I expect that most private citizens don't think much of it, but the idea that they go after a celebrity with a good cause auction should be a caution.

[sm84]

Originally Posted by Tools

The distinction is clear - non-resident but leave it there it is imported. If you are a resident and bought it out of country, but bring it in for personal use, you need to pay import tax.

If you suddenly decide to sell while in a foreign country, you have "imported" the item and are liable for any import tax and duty. Just because you don't make it public doesn't change the law. If you declare at entry "to be safe" makes no sense. Why would you incur those costs for no reason?

It doesn't matter if you are a resident or visitor/tourist. If the item has not been properly imported and is left there, you are in violation of the law.

Thank you for this info. Is this the same logic that applies when visiting any country as far as import is concerned with a luxury watch?

Does this change if you are for example a dual citizen? For example, if I am a dual citizen of the US and UK (for example sake), then, if I have a watch purchased in the US, and I travel to the UK, do I have to declare and pay taxes and duty there even if I intend to bring the watch back?

[bondtoys]

Originally Posted by sm84

Interestingly, he apparently was never asked to declare and was not even given a declaration form.

I've personally experienced this where no declaration form was given or there was an opportunity to declare.

It's not how it works in Europe.
When entering the EU (and UK) from abroad, you can choose the green corridor (Nothing to declare) or the red corridor (something to declare).
Apparently, he chose the green exit.

[KJBrandal]

If you are bringing the goods into the country you reside in you have to declare and pay VAT. Does not matter if you are a citizen, it is where you reside.

[jamesbondOO7]

Originally Posted by sm84

Does this change if you are for example a dual citizen? For example, if I am a dual citizen of the US and UK (for example sake), then, if I have a watch purchased in the US, and I travel to the UK, do I have to declare and pay taxes and duty there even if I intend to bring the watch back?

Residency is important, not citizenship.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by sm84

Thank you for this info. Is this the same logic that applies when visiting any country as far as import is concerned with a luxury watch?

Does this change if you are for example a dual citizen? For example, if I am a dual citizen of the US and UK (for example sake), then, if I have a watch purchased in the US, and I travel to the UK, do I have to declare and pay taxes and duty there even if I intend to bring the watch back?

Import laws do not draw a distinction on if you are a citizen or not, everybody is subject to taxes and duty.

Many countries have a dollar amount that is not taxed, but that is so low almost any watch would be above the threshold. This applies to anything you import, not just watches.

If you are simply wearing a watch into and then out of a country you are not importing it - nothing to declare.

[INC]

I think, you all miss one MAJOR point.

Swiss is the part of the Schengen area, which means, there is no border control, as that country behaves like an EU country in this aspect. However, believe it or not, but as because Swiss is not the part of the EU, so there is a tax border between the EU and Swiss. This means, that when for example you simply gets off from a train then you can walk away without bothering by anybody with some old fashioned check points or passport control. But in the same time you can randomly be stopped by the custom agents, and they may force you to pay the fees for your imported goods. And in these cases, just because you have not declared your personal things on a voluntary base, so they have the right to treat almost any of your things as an import good.

So, the ones, who do not know about this, can get into serious trouble, as they will not even realise what is happening to them. They can simply say, "nothing special, just a watch for a charity". And that's all folks, the customs saga starts imediately.

[supernova]

You’re fine if you’re not planning on selling it in the country you’re travelling to. Otherwise people won’t be able to travel with anything of value! Also helps if you’re not a high profile person like Arnold!


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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Tools

Import laws do not draw a distinction on if you are a citizen or not, everybody is subject to taxes and duty.

Many countries have a dollar amount that is not taxed, but that is so low almost any watch would be above the threshold. This applies to anything you import, not just watches.

If you are simply wearing a watch into and then out of a country you are not importing it - nothing to declare.

Exactly