Auto Rolex needs a shake to start even with hand winding

[coolerfiend]

Hi,

I recently acquired a Rolex Explorer 114270 from 2005. Service history unknown. When the watch comes to a stop, winding the crown will not cause it to start up, it needs a shake to get the second hand moving. However, I did a test where I started with it fully stopped and out of charge, wound the crown 60 times and then shook the watch for 5 seconds, then set it down, and it did run for the 48 hours of full power reserve. So, I know the hand winding does in fact charge the mainspring. It's jsut that hand winding alone will not cause the second hand to start running.

Anything to worry about here?

Thanks!

[Tools]

Pretty common for a mechanical watch and many other gear operated machines.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Time for a service. A freshly serviced or new watch will start running with only a few turns of the crown from a dead stop. Probably a bit of beat error, dried oil or both going on.

[nboyer]

+1.

Originally Posted by valenciawatchrepair

time for a service. A freshly serviced or new watch will start running with only a few turns of the crown from a dead stop. Probably a bit of beat error, dried oil or both going on.

[Tomas Eriksson]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

Time for a service. A freshly serviced or new watch will start running with only a few turns of the crown from a dead stop. Probably a bit of beat error, dried oil or both going on.

I have bought multiple new rolexes the last few years and that is not my experience. I have two submariners for example that are from 2017 and 2018, either one has to be almost fully wind or needs a little shake to get ticking.

[wristpost]

Just received my 126710BLRO pepsi a month ago and im experiencing the exact same thing you mentioned above. I also noticed that all my other watches start ticking after a few winds from a complete stop howevrt that is not the case with my brand new pepsi. After a conplete dead stop i would manually wind it 50+ times and it would not start. Only after a shake would it start. Can someone let us know if this is normal?


Thanks

[Tools]

Originally Posted by wristpost

. . . Can someone let us know if this is normal?


Thanks

A watch movement is made up of 200 individual parts. Many of these parts are moving and must mesh or slide with other parts; there is also a certain amount of torque that is inherent in the gear train as the mainspring must push against it all to get it moving.

Once in a while we need to physically break the "torque lock" of some parts pressing against others, or overcome extra friction that may be at some critical parts.

In a perfect world it would all be precisely lubed and free of friction - real life is seldom perfect. Give it a light tap with a finger, or a quick flick, you won't break it.

[Aquaholic_user]

My Omega PO 2500 has been doing the same for a while too.

SM-N960U

[wristpost]

Originally Posted by Tools

A watch movement is made up of 200 individual parts. Many of these parts are moving and must mesh or slide with other parts; there is also a certain amount of torque that is inherent in the gear train as the mainspring must push against it all to get it moving.

Once in a while we need to physically break the "torque lock" of some parts pressing against others, or overcome extra friction that may be at some critical parts.

In a perfect world it would all be precisely lubed and free of friction - real life is seldom perfect. Give it a light tap with a finger, or a quick flick, you won't break it.

Thanks for the prompt response.

I understand that this could be an occasional thing now. However this is the only way it will start up after a complete stop. FYI it is brand new bought in December 2019 from the AD. Should I be considered that it is happening now, right out the box and not after many years?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by wristpost

Thanks for the prompt response.

I understand that this could be an occasional thing now. However this is the only way it will start up after a complete stop. FYI it is brand new bought in December 2019 from the AD. Should I be considered that it is happening now, right out the box and not after many years?

Depends on how you were winding it as they only wind on the forward wind and the 32 series movement would need around 60 full crown turns clockwise only to fully wind mainspring.Even after a manual wind some might even then need a gentle shake to start all normal.As long as it keeps running keeping good time you have nothing to worry about.

[Billfav]

I recently purchased a 14270 that was RSC serviced about a year ago under prior ownership. I have the warranty tag with the data of 1/2020. I was getting concerned that my caliber 3000 would wind, keep great time, and have adaquate power reserve but would not run after winding when fully wound down. It requires a mild shake to get it going. I only have a few months of warranty from the RSC service and considered sending it back, but if this is normal I won't bother.

I have had this problem with older vintage watches with unknown service history but did not expect it with this watch. Glad to read it is not abnormal.

[wez004]

I have the same behavior with my Explorer II 16570 2008. It happens about 50 percent of the time. I get 25 full turns and it will start or it won't. I give it a little shake and away it goes. The watch was serviced about 3 years ago. It's part of a collection and spends a lot of time in the watch box. I don't keep my watches on winders, I hand wind every couple of days when I remember, so it probably runs down once a week. And could sit in an unwound state for a few days. My 2021 DateJust starts after about 20 turns as does my Tudor Chrono and 2016 Sub.

I wouldn't bother getting OCD about it, I think it's just the character of the movement and it likes a gentle tap to get going.

[Rolex tom]

In theory your watch should start as soon as you wind it. The lever escapement is designed to be self starting, it achieves this because when at rest and completely wound down one the escape wheel teeth should line on the impulse face of the entry pallet stone.

However in practice this doesn't always happen, if the watch has not been looked at for some time then the chances are the oil on the pallet stones and escape wheel teeth are less "fresh" and more gummed than when first applied and as a result the power that would normally be enough to start the watch is no longer enough. Add this to the natural weakening of the mainspring over time and the gumming up of oil throughout the train (not just the pallets and escape teeth) and in the balance settings the chances of a watch that hasn't been looked at for some time are quite slim. Sometimes it can just be, it takes more power for the initial first impulse to move the pallet fork which then in turn has to move the balance. However it should at some point between no wind and full wind start its self

In your case I wouldn't worry an awful lot this doesn't necessarily mean "go get it serviced immediately" but I would recommend you do have it serviced in the near future given you are unsure of the history.

[brandrea]

Interesting but all the 32xx movements I’ve owned start after about 10-15 winds from a dead stop:2

Edit: blro, SD43, Submariner

[HiBoost]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Interesting but all the 32xx movements I’ve owned start after about 10-15 winds from a dead stop:2

Edit: blro, SD43, Submariner

My 32xx watches start ticking a bit faster than the 31xx I had previously. Could be due to the lower amplitude design of the 32xx? But any modern Rolex I've owned has taken noticeably longer to start ticking as compared to any of my ETA powered watches. Interestingly, the 1575 in my 1970s GMT starts ticking almost immediately upon winding.

[JMGoodnight369]

I had a 114270 m serial (2009) that even after service would require a quick shake to get going as well. I would give it a full 40-50 turn wind and a brisk flick of the wrist and it would moving. It was quite accurate still. Ran at +3 a day for about 3 years while I had it.

[Nelson6]

Originally Posted by Valenciawatchrepair

Time for a service. A freshly serviced or new watch will start running with only a few turns of the crown from a dead stop. Probably a bit of beat error, dried oil or both going on.

Rubbish. It's perfectly normal for a mechanical movement to require a little touch to get going on occasion. Fear not. If it's keeping good time and the power reserve is normal, you're fine.

[mikeo1]

Typically when a watch requires a shake to start the balance wheel moving it will be found to be "out of beat" meaning the position of the balance wheel jewel in the pallet horn is not centered. On a timing machine this can be seen as a space between the left and right records. This is usually reviewed and resolved with a service-

Can also happen on a very dirty watch

[Ciel]

Hello, I would appreciate advice from everyone. I'm not a watch expert and lack much experience. Recently, I had my Daytona serviced. I noticed that it started running when I took it out and brought it to the living room without winding it. Unlike my previous Daytona, which required winding to start, I'm unsure why this one began running without winding. Should I send it back, or is this considered normal for a newly serviced watch? Thank you.

[Easy E]

Originally Posted by Ciel

Hello, I would appreciate advice from everyone. I'm not a watch expert and lack much experience. Recently, I had my Daytona serviced. I noticed that it started running when I took it out and brought it to the living room without winding it. Unlike my previous Daytona, which required winding to start, I'm unsure why this one began running without winding. Should I send it back, or is this considered normal for a newly serviced watch? Thank you.

The rotor spun enough to load the mainspring. That’s good. You still need to fully wind the watch though.

[Ciel]

Originally Posted by Easy E

The rotor spun enough to load the mainspring. That’s good. You still need to fully wind the watch though.

Thank you 😊 I thought something wrong with my watch

[painexpert]

Originally Posted by Tomas Eriksson

I have bought multiple new rolexes the last few years and that is not my experience. I have two submariners for example that are from 2017 and 2018, either one has to be almost fully wind or needs a little shake to get ticking.

I agree. It takes 20-25 winds to get mine going and this is on multiple rolex watches that I have. Of course, all watches are different.

[Dirt]

It's a relatively common occurence for a Rolex.

The Pallet jewels interface with the escape wheel teeth through a sliding action.
The effect of this is that the more one winds up the mainspring, there is a build up of torque at the Pallet jewel and Escape wheel interface and this in turn can lock the movement up even more and can be counter productive.

I only wind mine up by 4-8 turns and give the watch a slight little shake which unlocks everything and the watch will run if it hasn't started by itself.
Whether one opts to put more turns into it is entirely optional but I normally set the watch after it's started, then put it on to wind up by itself on my wrist.
I have found on occasion that a lot of turns doesn't necessarily equate to a self starting movement from a dead stop condition. Even when relatively fresh after a service.
But that's just how it works out for myself.
Depending on one's activity levels, the watch should run fine and wind up to full power throughout the day on the wrist.

Of course, you need to entertain the possibility that your watch may need a service and a highly reputable watchmaker could take the back of for a close inspection to see if the movement is dirty and or a bit dry.
Which may explain why it's a bit sluggish to start as well
Other brands of watches with different movements will routinely start by themselves after 1 or 2 turns or 4-6 turns even after many years between services
Let us know how you choose to handle it from here?

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by Ciel

Hello, I would appreciate advice from everyone. I'm not a watch expert and lack much experience. Recently, I had my Daytona serviced. I noticed that it started running when I took it out and brought it to the living room without winding it. Unlike my previous Daytona, which required winding to start, I'm unsure why this one began running without winding. Should I send it back, or is this considered normal for a newly serviced watch? Thank you.

You have nothing to be concerned about.
Enjoy

[supernova]

Same with most of my mechanical watches of all ages so very normal. No need to service just because of this.

[painexpert]

Originally Posted by wez004

I have the same behavior with my Explorer II 16570 2008. It happens about 50 percent of the time. I get 25 full turns and it will start or it won't. I give it a little shake and away it goes. The watch was serviced about 3 years ago. It's part of a collection and spends a lot of time in the watch box. I don't keep my watches on winders, I hand wind every couple of days when I remember, so it probably runs down once a week. And could sit in an unwound state for a few days. My 2021 DateJust starts after about 20 turns as does my Tudor Chrono and 2016 Sub.

I wouldn't bother getting OCD about it, I think it's just the character of the movement and it likes a gentle tap to get going.

You need more than 25 turns. Try 40-50 turns. This may solve the issue.

[graco1]

My Batman was doing this, if u took it off and shake it by your ears u would hear and feel something shaking inside ALSO, it wouldn’t hold the time for long, took it to this old Chinese guy on Broadway between 31 & 32 he said come back in an hour, I’ll try to fix it, he was actually eating when I brought it long story short no shaking noise time keeps for hours and days said something about oil and cleaning

[Dirt]

Originally Posted by wristpost

Thanks for the prompt response.

I understand that this could be an occasional thing now. However this is the only way it will start up after a complete stop. FYI it is brand new bought in December 2019 from the AD. Should I be considered that it is happening now, right out the box and not after many years?

It's possible it needs a service given the issues with the movement
How is the timekeeping?
Does it run slow?

As Larry says, it's not uncommon for a mechanical watch to need a little jiggle to help it get going, but I will say that it's been my experience that it becomes incrementally more difficult to kick start them as they near service time.

Oh, I've just realised it's an old thread

[cornerstore]

Originally Posted by Dirt

It's possible it needs a service given the issues with the movement
How is the timekeeping?
Does it run slow?

As Larry says, it's not uncommon for a mechanical watch to need a little jiggle to help it get going, but I will say that it's been my experience that it becomes incrementally more difficult to kick start them as they near service time.

Oh, I've just realised it's an old thread

Still very relevant though. These old threads are a wealth of information. Recently purchased a GMT circa 2000 has the same issues. Nice to know that it’s a common issue. Going to send it in for service anyways as it’s never been serviced from what I can see.