1601 Help

[kon]

Hi I recently purchased a Datejust 1601 from a reputable seller who has been in business here in Los Angeles for a very long time. On the service record from 2021 it read 1601/4 as the model number. I keep looking for a similar dial but am having trouble finding it so I figured someone here may be able to help. I came across a "black lacquer" dial online and it seemed close but mine reads "Swiss Made". Possible that this is a service dial?

[Tools]

Typically, a watch in the pre-'98 time frame, with lume markers, and not marked with tritium designators, is very likely a later Luminova replacement.

[Old Expat Beast]

Does the lume on the dial (and hands) glow in the dark?

[kon]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

Does the lume on the dial (and hands) glow in the dark?

Yes! That was kind of the first sign that it was a service dial.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by kon

Yes! That was kind of the first sign that it was a service dial.

Then for sure it's a service dial.

[Dan S]

Yes, it's a service dial. The case has also been refinished in a strange way.

[GGGMT]

Who’s the reputable seller from LA?


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[kon]

Ramerica Ramin Cohen

[rootbeer7]

It’s a service dial, but a lovely pan-pie dial one. Hopefully hands are replacements to match. The case has been polished into a mirror shine which is a bit odd, but the case appears thick and can be corrected.

[kon]

Originally Posted by rootbeer7

It’s a service dial, but a lovely pan-pie dial one. Hopefully hands are replacements to match. The case has been polished into a mirror shine which is a bit odd, but the case appears thick and can be corrected.

Will likely take it to Los Angeles watch works and have it corrected!

[TuRo]

Yes, as everyone said a post 2000 service dial and it's been sort of 'chrome polished'.

If you feeling brave you can buy a polishing stick (like a nail file but four grades) and get very light matte nap back on it at roughly 45° to the lug.
Of course, alternatively, a watchmaker can sharpen it up for a small fee.

I love a silver 1601/1603 over pretty much any other colour and a service dial on a DJ is really not a demerit in my eyes or the mkts valuation c £2900-3400....so I'd just enjoy it.

Looks like nice old US bracelet too and watch is overall a nice DJ in my eyes esp if you didn't overpay on it.

[GGGMT]

OP Thks for PM. I’ve never heard of that dealer. Whether it was fair depends on the description of the watch originally. Can you return it?


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[Yachtbuoy]

I own a '77 1603 which has the same type of dial but is T SWISS MADE T - I've seen only a handful of similar ones as the convention would be the dial should say SWISS only but here we are.

I've seen a few service dials with luminova that fit that pattern too - I've considered doing it to mine but I like the champagne colour mine is taking.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by kon

Will likely take it to Los Angeles watch works and have it corrected!

LAWW can refinish the case, but it may not be cheap. Overall, depending on how much you paid, you might consider a return.

[kon]

Originally Posted by Dan S

LAWW can refinish the case, but it may not be cheap. Overall, depending on how much you paid, you might consider a return.

HAHA! That's crazy! people do that?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by kon

haha! That's crazy! People do that?

[studioal]

If I'm OP this watch is being returned. Unless I got a smokin' deal on it and will be ahead even with case work to restore the brushing.

[Yachtbuoy]

Yeah that polished upper surface is wild.

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by Yachtbuoy

I own a '77 1603 which has the same type of dial but is T SWISS MADE T - I've seen only a handful of similar ones as the convention would be the dial should say SWISS only but here we are.

I've seen a few service dials with luminova that fit that pattern too - I've considered doing it to mine but I like the champagne colour mine is taking.

I'm not sure I understand your "…convention would be the dial should say SWISS only…" Your dial would be correct for the year with T SWISS T as SWISS only is a service dial, and potentially with Luminova instead of Tritium. If you mean the convention is that some of the original dials for these watches have been replaced with service dials, then I can see that. But not SWISS only as an original dial.

[77T]

A brief history of dials with Tritium...
Rolex Luminous Material Timeline
Before Early-1960s: Rolex uses radium for lume (radium dials are generally marked as “SWISS”).
1963: Rolex switches from radium to tritium for lume (tritium dials are generally marked as “SWISS – T < 25” or “T SWISS T”).
1993: Nemoto & Co invents Luminova (patented in 1995).
1998: Rolex begins using Luminova on its watch dials (Luminova dials are generally marked as “SWISS”).
2000: Rolex begins using Super-Luminova, which is similar to Luminova but sold through a different supplier (Super-Luminova dials are generally marked as “SWISS MADE”).
2008: Rolex debuts its proprietary Chromalight display on the Sea-Dweller, which glows blue.

Credit Paul Altier


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[TuRo]

Originally Posted by 77T

A brief history of dials with Tritium...
Rolex Luminous Material Timeline
Before Early-1960s: Rolex uses radium for lume (radium dials are generally marked as “SWISS”).
1963: Rolex switches from radium to tritium for lume (tritium dials are generally marked as “SWISS – T < 25” or “T SWISS T”).
1993: Nemoto & Co invents Luminova (patented in 1995).
1998: Rolex begins using Luminova on its watch dials (Luminova dials are generally marked as “SWISS”).
2000: Rolex begins using Super-Luminova, which is similar to Luminova but sold through a different supplier (Super-Luminova dials are generally marked as “SWISS MADE”).
2008: Rolex debuts its proprietary Chromalight display on the Sea-Dweller, which glows blue.

Credit Paul Altier


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Useful stuff, just for completeness pre 1952 radium were marked SWISS MADE

[TimeLord2]

Originally Posted by 77T

A brief history of dials with Tritium...
Rolex Luminous Material Timeline
Before Early-1960s: Rolex uses radium for lume (radium dials are generally marked as “SWISS”).
1963: Rolex switches from radium to tritium for lume (tritium dials are generally marked as “SWISS – T < 25” or “T SWISS T”).
1993: Nemoto & Co invents Luminova (patented in 1995).
1998: Rolex begins using Luminova on its watch dials (Luminova dials are generally marked as “SWISS”).
2000: Rolex begins using Super-Luminova, which is similar to Luminova but sold through a different supplier (Super-Luminova dials are generally marked as “SWISS MADE”).
2008: Rolex debuts its proprietary Chromalight display on the Sea-Dweller, which glows blue.

Credit Paul Altier

Indeed useful stuff 77T. I apologize that my post was perhaps a little misleading.

[Yachtbuoy]

Originally Posted by TimeLord2

I'm not sure I understand your "…convention would be the dial should say SWISS only…" Your dial would be correct for the year with T SWISS T as SWISS only is a service dial, and potentially with Luminova instead of Tritium. If you mean the convention is that some of the original dials for these watches have been replaced with service dials, then I can see that. But not SWISS only as an original dial.

As per my original post, I said that some Datejust dials of the period are also marked T SWISS MADE T, rather than just T SWISS T.

From what I've seen, this occurs both in the four digit DJs from the late 60s through to the five digit DJs. I'm not sure there's any rhyme or reason here and I don't think these are replacement dials either.

[Dan S]

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but IMO, a T SWISS MADE T dial on a 4-digit DJ would be a replacement. Those dials started in the 80s, IIRC.

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by Dan S

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but IMO, a T SWISS MADE T dial on a 4-digit DJ would be a replacement. Those dials started in the 80s, IIRC.

This is correct.

[Yachtbuoy]

Originally Posted by Dan S

We are all entitled to our own opinions, but IMO, a T SWISS MADE T dial on a 4-digit DJ would be a replacement. Those dials started in the 80s, IIRC.

Fair enough - it's hard to prove either way