Watchmakers sound alarm over internet fakes

[colemanitis]

The Swiss watchmaking industry says it faces an uphill struggle to check the rapidly expanding network of illegal websites selling counterfeit watches.

The run:up to Christmas has seen a flood of spam offering discounts on "replica" watches ? even the Federation of the Swiss Watch Industry has been on the receiving end.

"Christmas is a period that is set up for this kind of offer and people are profiting from this," Jean:Daniel Pasche, president of the federation, told swissinfo. "I too have been getting [these emails] at the federation despite our firewall."

"It's a very difficult situation. Unfortunately the internet has increased the distribution of fake watches."

Those looking to lay their hands on a fake Rolex or Patek Philippe no longer need to travel halfway round the world to the markets of Asia. At the touch of a button an increasing number of websites now deliver counterfeits to your door.

The federation estimates that the trade in fake watches is costing the industry around SFr800 million ($655 million) a year.

One site visited by swissinfo is selling a fake 18K Oyster Perpetual Submariner with "all the appropriate Rolex markings in the correct places" for $239 (SFr291). The genuine article retails for around SFr25,500.

Another is advertising a replica Breitling Navitimer Olympus, again with all the trimmings, ready for worldwide shipping at $249.95 a piece. An original goes for around SFr6,000.

Tip of the iceberg

And this is just the tip of the iceberg. Type in "replica watches" in the internet search engine Google and you will find 1.3 million entries.

"It's very easy to build up a website. You can take the genuine photos from the official website of the brand, and people think they will receive this watch," said Pasche.

"We have had some success and have been able to close some of these sites. But as soon as we close one, another one appears under a different name. It has not been possible to reduce the number, because it is so easy to launch a site."

Leading brands such as Rolex and Breitling now carry prominent warnings on their homepage on the risks of buying watches on the internet.

Firms make it clear that no official distributors or retailers sell their watches on the internet, adding that goods sold via the web will not be protected by warranty.

According to Pasche, the watchmaking industry is still getting to grips with what he describes as a new front in the war on counterfeiting. He said there was an urgent need for new legislation, as well as lawsuits to establish case law in favour of brand owners.

"There are a lot of things to do. We are trying to step up the fight but it will take a long time. This is a new aspect of counterfeiting," he said.

[JJ Irani]

Good post, Jeff....but with all their efforts, I don't think there's a damn thing they can do about it!! Not worth it, anyway!!

Those who profess to be suckers....so be it!!

[Flyjet601]

Great post Jeff

Although as JJ said......there aint a hope in h*** that they will ever stop it.

Living here in Asia, you see fake EVERYTHING. Rolex, Breitling, Louis Vitton, Nike, Tommy, DVD's(name a movie in the cinema and I can get it) ....you name a brand and they copy it here. And some of the fakes are really nice quality...but they are still fakes.

There is no one who will break down the barriers over here and weed out the counterfitters....it aint going to happen, the market is too huge.

So with that I guess we can enjoy our "real" toys.

[padi56]

Good post Jeff but its been going on for years and unfortunately its going to be almost impossible to stop now.

[astcell]

No one is putting a gun to the buyer's heads demanding that they buy the watches. Sadly there is a demand for them. On one hand maybe if Rolex came out with a $139.95 watch them folks can own a real watch.

I don't buy fake anything because I think what if someone bought a fake (insert what your business sells here). You really do need to get what you pay for. The $29.95 Timex gives you a real product. So when I see folks saying they want a Folex, I try to educate them,. it may not work but I can try.

[Thurnau]

I think the overpricing model brings them into the wide scale of replication. If a SS sub would cost 1,000 USD would the consumer desire the fake one at 250?

I own 2 rolexs both DJ's. While I like owning a rolex watch, I don't know if I will buy one again ever. They aren't worth the MSRP to me with or without a discount. I am disgusted that I can't swap bracelets between jub and oyster, or a leather one like some other brands.

I am beginning to desire a seiko or a newer citizen, they look nicer everyday:)

[ezmoney46]

I'm a believer in you get what you pay for, That's why I bought a Harley, and a Rolex. As Coca Cola put it. "there's nothing like the real thing" Nobody made me buy either one. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!

Steve

[amanda]

They are also referring to the ever increasing problem of spam mail here too. I administer the spam server at the govt dept I work for. A year ago we stopped 68,000 messsages, this year in the same month we stopped 890,000 messages.

I see mails with subjects all the time promoting 'replica rolex' or 'cheap luxury watches' they are coming in fast.

spam will eventually break the Internet, it's only a matter of time...

[Coffee King]

So I guess my question to all you wise old timers is how can you tell if the watch is a real Rolex or a fake?

Although I know my Submariner is the real deal. Because I bought it froma very well known Jewler in Seattle, how can you tell??

Steve

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by Coffee King

So I guess my question to all you wise old timers is how can you tell if the watch is a real Rolex or a fake?

Although I know my Submariner is the real deal. Because I bought it froma very well known Jewler in Seattle, how can you tell??

Steve

Well, Steve....there are fakes and then there are FAKES!! The "genuine" fakes are sold as such...in all honesty, they are sold as fakes by the seller!!

It's the really good fakes that we need to worry about.....ones that are so superbly crafted that even the experts out there could be bamboozled into believing them to be the real thing.....and these are being sold off as the real McCoys!!

So just play it safe - buy from an AD only. I wouldn't even trust the Gray market....because the source still remains a mystery sometimes!!

Go AD...go total peace of mind!!

[Prince]

Excellent post, Jeff. A true bane to all who love the genuine article!

[robm]

Is there a good place to report the fake distributors? If it is a spam with a website a simple query to godaddy.com will give you the website owners. Ebay seems to be ok, at eliminating the obvious fakes/replicas.

[kakalika]

These fake Rolex manufacturers are up to date too. I just found fake a TT anniversary GMT on the web already !! One thing for sure though is that it won't have a ceramic bezel.

[tonelar]

they're even imprinting the T after their serial numbers... also gone are the hole through lugs...

[mikey]

Guys, the Rolex movement is also faked. They have the same color gears as per the original movement that is suppose to be I guess the 3135 movement?? It is mainly put in the Sub,SD, and GMT fakes. So, if you were to remove the caseback and check the movement than you would recognize it as genuine. I have seen these models selling for $350-425.

[jaycee]

The fakes must be irritating for the industry but are they really losing money over them? Surely anyone who buys a fake is buying it because they cannot afford the real thing, although there are the occasions when a fake is passed off as real and the buyer loses a lot of money. However, in 99% of cases, someone paying $300 or so for a "Rolex" must know that it's not the real thing?

Mind you, I work in some dodgy parts of the world and one co-worker wears a fake Rolex on his wrist in the hope that, should he be done over by robbers, they'd be satisfied with his watch then leave him alone!

I'm off to India in a few days...one of the "fake" capitals of the world, I believe?? But it must be better than Angola!

[tonyp]

Well as everyone knows I almost got bit by a fake last week. I do think Rolex will succeed in stopping most fake watches from interring places like US, Canada, Western Europe and maybe China. Places like the far east It will be financially unviable as these are extremely poor countries where people even if they are professionals/doctors have no hope of ever buying a real Rolex. Rolex has no hope of ever selling watches in a profitable enough way to justified the expense of fighting these counterfeiters.

[TexasRolex]

Originally Posted by jaycee

The fakes must be irritating for the industry but are they really losing money over them? Surely anyone who buys a fake is buying it because they cannot afford the real thing, although there are the occasions when a fake is passed off as real and the buyer loses a lot of money. However, in 99% of cases, someone paying $300 or so for a "Rolex" must know that it's not the real thing?

Mind you, I work in some dodgy parts of the world and one co-worker wears a fake Rolex on his wrist in the hope that, should he be done over by robbers, they'd be satisfied with his watch then leave him alone!

I'm off to India in a few days...one of the "fake" capitals of the world, I believe?? But it must be better than Angola!

I think the problem with massive fake circulation is that it dilutes the "brand". Let's face it. A lot of people who buy expensive items do so in some part to impress other people. If there are tons of really good replica circulating, it may lessen the "prestige" factor. Just my 2 cents.

[robm]

I agree with jaycee. In fact in Rolex's case I think they realize additional profit from the knock-off market. Virtually every piece of SPAM for fake watches mentions Rolex (or some mis-spelling that looks like Rolex). That's incredible exposure! It must make people think, yea I'd like to own a real Rolex someday. Even when a fake on someone's wrist fools someone, they may think, well if xxxx has one, I'm going to get one. If you really want one, you aren't going to be satisfied with a fake. The real one feels soooo much nicer on your wrist!

Most people can't tell the difference between a fake and the real thing. In fact a few weeks after I bought mine, a coworker mentioned something about my fake Rolex. I really had to laugh, as it took two trips to purchase it. The first trip it was all written up and I was ready to pay for it and I had to walk out because I was so nervious. The salemen was an absolute gentlemen! He smiled and said come back when you are ready. I was back in a few days. That was 20 years ago, and it hardly leaves my wrist. No buyers remorse!

With that said I wouldn't encourage the rip-off industry. Especially if they are trying to take advantage of people. There are scary rumours out there. One person mentioned that the knock-offs are real Rolex rejects... Another friend showed me a Rolex he was given. I had to break the news that it was a fake. I felt bad disappointing him.

Rob

[JJ Irani]

Originally Posted by mikey

Guys, the Rolex movement is also faked. They have the same color gears as per the original movement that is suppose to be I guess the 3135 movement?? It is mainly put in the Sub,SD, and GMT fakes. So, if you were to remove the caseback and check the movement than you would recognize it as genuine. I have seen these models selling for $350-425.

If the above were true, it would be interesting to see a fake Rolex 3135 movement. These bastids are aware that prospective buyers would have the movement checked out, so they're now going the extra mile....and producing fakes like the real ones.

Just goes to show now that more people like us should rely on ADs only.

JJ

[tonyp]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

If the above were true, it would be interesting to see a fake Rolex 3135 movement. These bastids are aware that prospective buyers would have the movement checked out, so they're now going the extra mile....and producing fakes like the real ones.

Just goes to show now that more people like us should rely on ADs only.

JJ

Last night I found a whole board commited to faking rolex to extreme levels I mean these guys actually use real rolex parts. So yeah I can see this happening.

[Solo118]

You guys might not believe this, but now they are actually making fake vintage rolexs!

[jaycee]

I did actually see a page on a well known auction site where the seller was offering "Rolex watches made to order in 6 weeks" and was asking around £3000 for his wares.

I reported the advert, as I'm sure many others did, and it was removed in less than 24 hours.

Perhaps people do fall for these things in the same way that people fall for the Nigerian "419" scams?

[Prince Tudor]

What I don't understand is the justification that some of these sites use. They'll write things like; "when you want to give your real Rolex a break" or "You are going somewhere/doing something that might result in damaging your real Rolex" etc.... How many real Rolex or any brand name owners want knock offs of the same watch they already own???
IMHO If I can't afford the real deal then I don't even want to pretend. You'll never fool yourself. Then again as with everyone else hear we a true interest in the quality of the real name brands.
If i'm going somewhere where I don't want to wear my expensive stuff then I'll wear my Seiko. It's a high quality watch, looks great and it genuine.
That's just my opinion.

[tonyp]

Members are asking me for this so Its just a lot easier if I post it.
I do not agree with what goes on at this board. Just posting for the benefit of those who want to know how good these FAKES can really get.

http://www.rwg.cc/members/index.php?...27&hl=mbw+1680

[mailman]

Originally Posted by Solo118

You guys might not believe this, but now they are actually making fake vintage rolexs!

I believe Mike has posted before that The red Sub and the DRSD were being replicated.

[mikey]

Well, I look at it like this. The vintage are nearly impossible to get unless you want to pay $100,000.00US. I have been checking sites, and I have seen the 5512 replica, 1680, 5513,5517 etc....I have even seen the 6263 in good and bad examples. I have seen those subs with the "t" with a circle around it sold with a Nato on it. Thats impressive, but wouldn't these old vintage replicas be ok? I mean some of these rare models are in private collections and if a guy wanted a rare model nearly impossible to get. My 2 cents