Watch movements

[Neil.tf001]

Hi All,
I have looked a little and see different current model's have different movements. Are any of these more reliable/ accurate than others. Is a none date sub movement better than a date movement. How does this stack up to a Daytona movement.
Thanks,
Neil

[chris russell]

The 3100 Series of movements comes in a number of different iterations, some with Parachrom Blu hairspring, some with a regular Nivarox hairspring depending on the watch model. Some have the date, some do not, the ones used in the DD of course have a day function as well. These movements have been around in one form or another for decades. They have been refined to the point that they are among the most accurate and reliable mechanical movements made by anybody. The Parachrom Blu hairspring is at present used in the GMT IIc, the Milgauss, the Sub-c and the Daytona, and seems to provide a bit better overall accuracy. Rolex claims it's much more immune to impact and magnetic fields.

The 4130 movement has been in use since 2000, is used only in the Daytona, has no date, and except for the integrated chrono function is reasonably similar in overall design to the 3100 Series. One difference is that the rotor in the Daytona is carried in a ball-bearing, while the 3100 Series uses a ruby bushing. The ruby bushing is pretty much silent in operation while the ball-bearing, though very slightly noisier, is thought to be less prone to long-term wear. If you follow a reasonable service schedule, the ruby bushing will never be a problem.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by Neil.tf001

Hi All,
I have looked a little and see different current model's have different movements. Are any of these more reliable/ accurate than others. Is a none date sub movement better than a date movement. How does this stack up to a Daytona movement.
Thanks,
Neil

Well today the complete Rolex mens line up except the chrongraphs are based on one single movement the cal 3135.The non date sub now with the 3130 is a 3135 minus the date wheel complication.Likewise the cal 3155 a 3135 with a added day complication and the GMT watches just add the second timezone feature.All the Rolex movements since the 1960s have shown fantastic accuracy and longevity of life that why so many survive today, my favourites are the 15XX series.The cal 4130 is Rolex first ever in-house chronograph movement, and a excellent movement it is before they used ebauche movements from ETA Valjoux and Zenith.,

[Neil.tf001]

Thank you for the infomation

[MagedMS]

Originally Posted by chris russell

The 3100 Series of movements comes in a number of different iterations, some with Parachrom Blu hairspring, some with a regular Nivarox hairspring depending on the watch model. Some have the date, some do not, the ones used in the DD of course have a day function as well. These movements have been around in one form or another for decades. They have been refined to the point that they are among the most accurate and reliable mechanical movements made by anybody. The Parachrom Blu hairspring is at present used in the GMT IIc, the Milgauss, the Sub-c and the Daytona, and seems to provide a bit better overall accuracy. Rolex claims it's much more immune to impact and magnetic fields.

The 4130 movement has been in use since 2000, is used only in the Daytona, has no date, and except for the integrated chrono function is reasonably similar in overall design to the 3100 Series. One difference is that the rotor in the Daytona is carried in a ball-bearing, while the 3100 Series uses a ruby bushing. The ruby bushing is pretty much silent in operation while the ball-bearing, though very slightly noisier, is thought to be less prone to long-term wear. If you follow a reasonable service schedule, the ruby bushing will never be a problem.

Thanks Chris for the information.. Shall we consider the 4160 Movement of YMII as a third kind of Rolex Movements.. As It has the complicated mechanical memory mechanism ?

[SSSS]

Reliable movements perhaps, but I'm not so sure if they're the most accurate.

Parachrom Blu hairspring is in the later serial (V, M) Explorer IIs as well.

Originally Posted by chris russell

The 3100 Series of movements comes in a number of different iterations, some with Parachrom Blu hairspring, some with a regular Nivarox hairspring depending on the watch model. Some have the date, some do not, the ones used in the DD of course have a day function as well. These movements have been around in one form or another for decades. They have been refined to the point that they are among the most accurate and reliable mechanical movements made by anybody. The Parachrom Blu hairspring is at present used in the GMT IIc, the Milgauss, the Sub-c and the Daytona, and seems to provide a bit better overall accuracy. Rolex claims it's much more immune to impact and magnetic fields.

The 4130 movement has been in use since 2000, is used only in the Daytona, has no date, and except for the integrated chrono function is reasonably similar in overall design to the 3100 Series. One difference is that the rotor in the Daytona is carried in a ball-bearing, while the 3100 Series uses a ruby bushing. The ruby bushing is pretty much silent in operation while the ball-bearing, though very slightly noisier, is thought to be less prone to long-term wear. If you follow a reasonable service schedule, the ruby bushing will never be a problem.

[Tools]

Originally Posted by Neil.tf001

Thank you for the infomation

In summary, No - one movement in a Rolex is not considered any more reliable/accurate than another in a modern model...........

[chris russell]

Originally Posted by MagedMS

Thanks Chris for the information.. Shall we consider the 4160 Movement of YMII as a third kind of Rolex Movements.. As It has the complicated mechanical memory mechanism ?

Yes, it can be considered a different movement, but only in terms of its differing chrono package from the Daytona. Otherwise, I'm sure it's the same drive mechanism as the 4130.

[chris russell]

Originally Posted by SSSS

Reliable movements perhaps, but I'm not so sure if they're the most accurate.

years, there are two manufacturers, and 3 movements between them, that are capable of quartz accuracy in a purely mechanical watch: One of them is the newer 8500 Co-Axial movement from Omega. I have 2 of these, and both can easily be regulated to just sit on the same second for months or years; +/-0 per day, in other words. One of mine arrived from the factory that way. With those, it helps to place them in the same position each night, and they seem never to drift.

The other movements that can do that are the Rolex 313X and the 4130, especially the ones with the Parachrom Blu in my experience. I've had several of these, and two of them came from the factory regulated accurately enough to stay +/-0 sec/day for months and months straight. My first Daytona was the earlier Zenith-based movement, and it was pretty good, but then I traded it for the 4130, and it was spooky. I had it for a year, and it didn't lose or gain a second in all that time. I've only heard of temperature-compensated quartz being accurate to a second or two a year, but this Daytona did even better. My Milgauss does the same thing at least so far, I've only had it 6 months.

The Rolexes go one better than the Omega 8500 in that it doesn't seem to make much, or even any difference what position I leave them in at night.

My theory is that part of what makes most other watches drift from their regulated rate is wear and tear on the hairspring from the regulator pins. With the Omega and the Rolex, the free-sprung balances allow no contact with the hairspring, so no drift over time. The Rolex movements also have overcoil harsprings which reduce change in timing with position. There aren't many movements out there that have both free-sprung balances and overcoils, (Patek makes some). Realistically, I'm not sure it's meaningfully possible to make a wristwatch more accurate than within one second in a year. If you know of other manufacturer's mechanical watches that can do that, I'd love to read about them. Thanks!

[SSSS]

Originally Posted by chris russell

years, there are two manufacturers, and 3 movements between them, that are capable of quartz accuracy in a purely mechanical watch: One of them is the newer 8500 Co-Axial movement from Omega. I have 2 of these, and both can easily be regulated to just sit on the same second for months or years; +/-0 per day, in other words. One of mine arrived from the factory that way. With those, it helps to place them in the same position each night, and they seem never to drift.

The other movements that can do that are the Rolex 313X and the 4130, especially the ones with the Parachrom Blu in my experience. I've had several of these, and two of them came from the factory regulated accurately enough to stay +/-0 sec/day for months and months straight. My first Daytona was the earlier Zenith-based movement, and it was pretty good, but then I traded it for the 4130, and it was spooky. I had it for a year, and it didn't lose or gain a second in all that time. I've only heard of temperature-compensated quartz being accurate to a second or two a year, but this Daytona did even better. My Milgauss does the same thing at least so far, I've only had it 6 months.

The Rolexes go one better than the Omega 8500 in that it doesn't seem to make much, or even any difference what position I leave them in at night.

My theory is that part of what makes most other watches drift from their regulated rate is wear and tear on the hairspring from the regulator pins. With the Omega and the Rolex, the free-sprung balances allow no contact with the hairspring, so no drift over time. The Rolex movements also have overcoil harsprings which reduce change in timing with position. There aren't many movements out there that have both free-sprung balances and overcoils, (Patek makes some). Realistically, I'm not sure it's meaningfully possible to make a wristwatch more accurate than within one second in a year. If you know of other manufacturer's mechanical watches that can do that, I'd love to read about them. Thanks!

Well, I can't speak to the 313x, but the 3186 in my Explorer II runs a consistent +2 seconds fast per day and I've read on this forum that this is supposed to be one of the most accurate movements Rolex makes.

I know some others on this forum are not so concerned, but for watches of this calibre, I would have liked to have seen quartz like accuracy in these mechanical movements.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by SSSS

Well, I can't speak to the 313x, but the 3186 in my Explorer II runs a consistent +2 seconds fast per day and I've read on this forum that this is supposed to be one of the most accurate movements Rolex makes.

I know some others on this forum are not so concerned, but for watches of this calibre, I would have liked to have seen quartz like accuracy in these mechanical movements.

All the Rolex movements since the 1960s have all been accurate thats why they are chronmeters.And accuracy yes the movement helps but its how they are regulated. Even very humble movements if very carefully regulated can perform too or inside the current COSC spec.