Another 1016 question

[thecat]

Has anybody ever heard of or seen a chapter ring OCC dial on a 1016 case with 1560 movement?

I'm a beginner trying to navigate my way through the minefield of vintage explorers and have been offered such a combination.

Thanks for your help.

[thecat]

Hi again,
I have some extra information (still no photos yet).
The case serial number is 516,XXX with II.60 inside back cover. All seems pretty legitimate but I would have expected to see the words "Superlative Officially Certified Chronometer" on the dial rather than just "Officially Certified Chronometer". Reading the information available indicates that such a dial would be earlier, possibly associated with a 1030 mechanism???

[adam78]

You may be right. I also think that wording is from the pre-1016 (i.e. 6610) era. It may be either a refinished dial, or the wrong dial. Pics would help (us).

[Paul]

The 1016 superceded the 6610 - no cross-over between the two AFAIK.

OCC chapter ring dials belong in 6610's (1030 movement)
SCOC dials belong in 1016's (1560 chronometer movement)

Just recently (June 1) a watch with the opposite configuration was discussed on VRF.
Easy enough to make one dial fit the other but it involves some permanent changes to the dial feet.
Even with all Rolex parts used, such a watch would smell "franken" to me with the dial telling the wrong story about the watch.

On a positive note though, a nice 6610 dial has good resale value. Any changes to its feet will pull a dials value back though

[rolexpawn]

Modifying a dial would be awful, the value would drop like a cannon ball and some of the old untouched dials are really hard to find.

[Paul]

Originally Posted by rolexpawn

Modifying a dial would be awful, the value would drop like a cannon ball and some of the old untouched dials are really hard to find.

I think the dirty works already been done though for any 1016 / 6610 hybrids that are out there

[jedly1]

after we talked the other day ..i did some digging around on vrf and a couple private places...and yes there are a few reffered to ..all v.early 60 and similar serial number...... so id say yes in theory its possible.

I guess its in line with the 1675 OCC dials form 60 also. moving dial feet would be messy though not impossible and as soon as you get it apart you'll see if thats the case.

[rolexpawn]

Originally Posted by jedly1

after we talked the other day ..i did some digging around on vrf and a couple private places...and yes there are a few reffered to ..all v.early 60 and similar serial number...... so id say yes in theory its possible.

I guess its in line with the 1675 OCC dials form 60 also. moving dial feet would be messy though not impossible and as soon as you get it apart you'll see if thats the case.

If someone knew what they were doing, they could move the feet without anyone knowing except for the watch experts. I have welded steel parts for a long time, as second job, and if I take my time I can make the weld disappear into the steel.

[jedly1]

for the record they aren't steel they are brassy alloy, not that it makes much difference.

trouble is to do the heating/polishing of welds AND polishing out the previous join/feet marks ...without making it detectable under a loupe on the polished side or more importantly on the gloss finished dial side is tricky...we put a man on the moon so not impossible ... but that much effort would make little sense....

[rolexpawn]

Originally Posted by jedly1

for the record they aren't steel they are brassy alloy, not that it makes much difference.

trouble is to do the heating/polishing of welds AND polishing out the previous join/feet marks ...without making it detectable under a loupe on the polished side or more importantly on the gloss finished dial side is tricky...we put a man on the moon so not impossible ... but that much effort would make little sense....

What I was trying to say, is some people will work really hard at a scam to make the big bucks.

[thecat]

Thanks for all the expert feedback - it really helps us less knowledgable ones.
Next step is clearly to try and get some photos posted to see what everyone thinks.