Vintage Pricing UK versus US

[colpol]

I've got most of the trusted sellers sites bookmarked & been checking out prices on a regular basis particulary 1665, 5512 & 1680's (white & red)

I've noticed that a massive difference in pricing between US & UK. Not talking 100's but often 1000's of a difference. It would be cheaper to buy the watch in the US, jump on a flight to collect, have a long weekend & come back & still be a bit of £\$ in pocket.

The easy way - fedex, pay the taxes - still way cheaper

Realise when we're talking vintage it can get very subjective i.e. condition, papers, servicing but I just think the prices in the UK are extremely high often for mediocre examples

Is it supply & demand ? US massive country, more watches, more available, prices more stable whereas opposite in UK ?

Sorry - maybe just a saturday morning ramble ..... !!

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by colpol

I've got most of the trusted sellers sites bookmarked & been checking out prices on a regular basis particulary 1665, 5512 & 1680's (white & red)

I've noticed that a massive difference in pricing between US & UK. Not talking 100's but often 1000's of a difference. It would be cheaper to buy the watch in the US, jump on a flight to collect, have a long weekend & come back & still be a bit of £\$ in pocket.

The easy way - fedex, pay the taxes - still way cheaper

Realise when we're talking vintage it can get very subjective i.e. condition, papers, servicing but I just think the prices in the UK are extremely high often for mediocre examples

Is it supply & demand ? US massive country, more watches, more available, prices more stable whereas opposite in UK ?

Sorry - maybe just a saturday morning ramble ..... !!

Bingo! Plus, we always just get ripped off in Blighty for everything...

[jedly1]

as a pseudo UK dealer i agree this is an interesting observation , and it certainly looks to be the case on the surface, and can be more or less emphasised with currency movements...many say it is down to import duties that SHOULD :) be paid, and the problems returning a piece through the embargo if you run into difficulty which i know is something a few on here have experienced ...but in reality i believe its more fundamental than that...and its a conversation i was having yesterday in NYC as to the approach to dealing.....

generally i find that UK dealers buy a watch in and service it, or at the very least have it stripped, checked over , then serviced if it is warranted. The cost of this is not only the actual cost , but a write of cost for the ones that turn out to be shot and needing major repair or condemning, the ones where the hands crack during removals , or dials edges get chipped etc, the time it is away that your working capital is dead etc ..... and that adds to the price of the piece more than just he cost of a service

generally i find that US dealers buy a watch and sell the watch as fast as possible 'as is' , with speed of turnover being the focus and in essence fix any problems later IF they occur ...or more often IF they surface. with this approach the burden of carrying the capital through the service time passes to the buyer , the risk of accidental damage during service etc become the buyers and of course the cost of service.

now there is nothing wrong with either approach IMHO ,, its horses for courses ..you pays your money and you make your choices...some like to feel ahead of the curve , some want total peace of mind ..and everything in between.

now personally i think this has grown out of a historically good rolex support for vintage in UK compared to USA ...but it does seem to be the norm ...i cant count how many times i have heard from US buyers, i bought this great piece ...and i have now sent it to bob ridley for a service ....

there are of course exceptions ..but food for thought ...

[Puffy]

agreed and i'd buy vintage in the UK if i could find high quality stuff but i can't

the odd nice piece comes up for sale every now and then but generally you see the same mediocre stuff being flogged by UK dealers month in and month out

i can think of a few GMTs that have been out there on UK watch sites for months, over priced and not pleasing

you need to look to the US for great stuff

whether it's because poms didn't buy watches in the 1960s and 1970s or our american friends really got stuck in back in the day i don't know, but the US is your place if you want bang and quality for your buck

when i say great stuff, i mean all original and here's an unpolished radial 1675 i bought not long ago. came from the US

can't find this kind of stuff on these shores

i've already been offered a 25% premium to what i paid for it. the UK is void of this kind of stuff

[Puffy]

Originally Posted by jedly1

generally i find that UK dealers buy a watch in and service it, or at the very least have it stripped, checked over , then serviced if it is warranted.

generally i find that US dealers buy a watch and sell the watch as fast as possible 'as is'

i think you're right here mate..

some UK dealers, not all, do ensure the watch is in good working order... you build great relationships by ensuring your goods are 100%

the US* has really become an 'as is' market. one off sells

and quality stuff has become quite rare and most US sellers now sell some right crap they wouldn't go near a few years ago

either the market has dried up or it's all going out to APAC without making it onto the net

you do see some private collectors liquidating their portfolio which is good

*EDIT: and continental europe, good lord, the shite that is sold there is just beyond belief. yet it sells and at really high prices

[Vincent65]

I view the vintage market as global anyway. As far as I can ascertain, lots of dealers travel the world to source their stock, so, as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter where the watch is, if you know/trust the dealer, and look at each piece on an individual basis (none of them are new, by definition, so there's an infinite number of variables, unlike new/modern ones). So, I look at individual dealers and individual watches, not relative price by country.
Of course you are going to find more good examples in a comparatively massive market (USA). There are not many outstanding examples in the UK, and I've seen even fewer here in Switzerland, where the bloody things were made! Big place = more to choose from.

[HL65]

My opinion is and has always been that the truly best pieces never make it to market and go from collector to collector--many times privately sourced thru top notch dealers who have a gift for finding them(regardless of where in the world). Rarely do you see them listed and many times the best vintage hunters are retained by astute collectors to hunt them down for them. The best deals at shows also happen in the parking lot not from under the glass case. Just my humble opinion...Cheers,

[DrLindaPhD]

That's depends. Two of my vintage ladies watches are from the UK and are in MINT condition, great price. It may just have been timing. One of my watches is from Asia and the other remaining 3 are from US jewelers or estate auction houses.

You also have to realize that a lot of these watches are moving back and forth between Europe and the USA and Canada.

I have found, in my opinion, that there is a larger selection of vintage Ladies Rolex watches in Europe than in the USA.

I also tend to think people in Europe hold on to their watches longer than we Americans who are constantly flipping cars, watches, and houses.

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by DrLindaPhD

That's depends. Two of my vintage ladies watches are from the UK and are in MINT condition, great price. It may just have been timing. One of my watches is from Asia and the other remaining 3 are from US jewelers or estate auction houses.

You also have to realize that a lot of these watches are moving back and forth between Europe and the USA and Canada.

I have found, in my opinion, that there is a larger selection of vintage Ladies Rolex watches in Europe than in the USA.

I also tend to think people in Europe hold on to their watches longer than we Americans who are constantly flipping cars, watches, and houses.

Good points, all, but I think the market for vintage women's watches is quite different from the men's vintage market. The main difference being demand. I think you're probably quite fortunate in that you likely have fewer peers also hunting, more to choose from, and at more affordable prices.

[mikkibarry]

This is an interesting discussion to watch. I was just thinking that ALL vintage prices were going rather nuts if eBay is any example. Like Dr. Linda, several of my nicest pieces are from the UK (both ladies and men's) but "vintage" can mean so many things. I'm usually looking for the very early non sport models. When I budget, it's always +4-500 or so above the price for a watch that doesn't specify that it's been serviced prior to sale, and the movement looks to me like it has. I'm no expert, but if I see missing screws and oxidation, I assume it hasn't been serviced regardless of the ad. A master jeweler I trust has said for the manual winds, see if it works, then put it in a sealed plastic bag and take it to the watchmaker to check to see if it has actually been serviced before running it for a long period of time.

The prices I've seen on UK vintage sites are pretty much astronomical in a lot of cases, for stuff that really doesn't look that good. Occasionally there's something nice out there, or again occasionally on eBay, but my fear is that prices are wildly unstable at the moment. I was looking for a nice bubbleback recently and some crazy people are asking upwards of 10k for models that don't seem any better than "ok."

I do hope things stabilize at some point soon.

[Swearengen]

In the UK I have seen a ff Red 1680 with papers for £12k, which seemed a bit on the high side

Originally Posted by mikkibarry

The prices I've seen on UK vintage sites are pretty much astronomical in a lot of cases, for stuff that really doesn't look that good. Occasionally there's something nice out there, or again occasionally on eBay, but my fear is that prices are wildly unstable at the moment. I was looking for a nice bubbleback recently and some crazy people are asking upwards of 10k for models that don't seem any better than "ok."

I do hope things stabilize at some point soon.