Daytona vs EL PRIMERO

[hakkinen]

Who win in term of movement accuracy?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by hakkinen

Who win in term of movement accuracy?

When regulated correctly both are equal as they are both chronometers tested to exactly the same COSC standard as any other Swiss watch.

[gpfps]

I was going say what Padi wrote. It all comes down to regulation .

[rolepam312]

El primero!

[MitchSteel]

Daytona with ElPrimero movt.Best of both worlds

[psv]

According to my old master watch maker/friend, the Primero movement is over-rated. While it is fairly robust and accurate, it is a too complex and has much more wear and tear than other equivalent movements, as evident that major parts often has to be replaced after 5 years.

The chronograph movement he is the most impressed with of them all is actually the new Breitling 01 movements (and this is coming from someone who worked both for Rolex and Patek Philippe).

[padi56]

Originally Posted by psv

According to my old master watch maker/friend, the Primero movement is over-rated. While it is fairly robust and accurate, it is a too complex and has much more wear and tear than other equivalent movements, as evident that major parts often has to be replaced after 5 years.

The chronograph movement he is the most impressed with of them all is actually the new Breitling 01 movements (and this is coming from someone who worked both for Rolex and Patek Philippe).

The main reason that Rolex IMHO put there own escapement 28800BPH from the Zeniths normal 36000BPH was simply down to service interval.Now when Zenith first made the Elprimo they developed a special oil to be used when serviced the Hi beat movement and when serviced correctly there is no reason the Elprimo will be problematic.Now many watchmakers did not use this special oil and did not service them correctly.So like the Dubois Depraz module they got a bad name by some watchmakers.Not because they were bad simply because in the Zeniths case they did not use the correct oils and some did break down.And with the Dubois Depraz chrono modules many did not have the skills to set and oil them up correctly thats one of the main reason they got a bad name.When set up and serviced correctly the Elprimo and Dubois Depraz chrono modules can IMHO equal and better in many cases most chronograph movements made over the many decade and present day.

Now the first truly automatic chronograph the cal 11 was invented in 1969 in conjunction with 4 watch companies Breitling,Heuer, and Hamilton, plus movement specialist Dubois Depraz.And it was launched March 3rd 1969 in Geneva under the joint brand name of Chronomatic,and Zenith made the first 36,000 BPH called the El Primero a bit later.And lets not forget Seiko with their 6139A column wheel movement which featured the first ever use of a vertical clutch system mechanism and that was a fine reliable movement but then mainly only heard of in Japan.

[psv]

The guy I know was aware of all those issues and was considered best among the best, however, he still wasn't a fan of the El Primero movement and thought it was over-rated and over-hyped. And he has the a similar opinion about Rolex Yacht Master II 4161 movement - a future headache for Rolex, he thought. Just his [expert] opinion.

[kilyung]

Originally Posted by psv

... thought it was over-rated and over-hyped. And he has the a similar opinion about Rolex Yacht Master II 4161 movement - a future headache for Rolex, he thought. Just his [expert] opinion.

Hey Patrick,
What exactly are his concerns about the 4161? I hadn't read any issues about the movement yet and I'm getting ready to get one.

Thanks,
Mike

[psv]

Originally Posted by kilyung

Hey Patrick,
What exactly are his concerns about the 4161? I hadn't read any issues about the movement yet and I'm getting ready to get one.

Thanks,
Mike

I wish I remember his exact explanation, unfortunately my friend passed away unexpectedly earlier this year. I think it has something to do with the complexity of the movement and the fact that very few people know how to correctly service it. He anticipated that it will create some major headaches to Rolex in a few years.

He loved the 4130 movement and Daytona was his daily wearer.

[77T]

Originally Posted by psv

I wish I remember his exact explanation, unfortunately my friend passed away unexpectedly earlier this year. I think it has something to do with the complexity of the movement and the fact that very few people know how to correctly service it. He anticipated that it will create some major headaches to Rolex in a few years.

He loved the 4130 movement and Daytona was his daily wearer.

Even the most experienced watchmaker only gets to see one 4161 every 3-5 years among his clientele - so it gets fiddly remembering all the little things to do right. I can understand his disdain...

And Peter said it right - the watchmaker(s) who do not service a movement correctly can give it a bad name. The manufacturer who makes a movement that needs a bunch of special treatment is inviting future bad press due to that.

[psv]

And sometimes manufacturers makes bad decisions. Like in the case of IWC and the "Deep One" I used to own. They stopped making the watch after a couple of years and only a couple of hundreds (tops) were ever made. IWC technician hated the watch because the whole thing was too complex and too hard to regulate correctly (esp the mechanical depth gauge). Today, there are very, very few people at IWC that can handle this watch and service times are very long.

[fmc000]

I can't afford a Daytona but I own a circa 2001 Zenith Rainbow Fly-Back that I know for sure it hasn't been serviced in the past 5 years and possibly it NEVER have been.

Still it runs fast of about half a second per WEEK!





Sent from my SGS using Tapatalk.

[padi56]

Originally Posted by psv

I wish I remember his exact explanation, unfortunately my friend passed away unexpectedly earlier this year. I think it has something to do with the complexity of the movement and the fact that very few people know how to correctly service it. He anticipated that it will create some major headaches to Rolex in a few years.

He loved the 4130 movement and Daytona was his daily wearer.

Well in the real world the cal 4160/1 is just a modded 4130 so myself cannot see any problems and no more complex than the 4130..

[Clay]

Over the years I have read many "side-by-side" comparison articles about something "NEW" from Rolex vs. the "old"...and have yet to read one that has said that what Rolex has just come out with isn't better then what was...

I own a Zenith Daytona because I prefer the look of it vs. the newer model...

I've had mine serviced with no issues and I cannot imagine any watch keeping better time...

I can't help but believe that at some point, in the newer vs older debate, the differences become so small as to be really a non issue when making a purchase...

Just my two cents...