Replicas-why oh why

[indy78]

Purchasing a fake watch only supports illegal activity. It is an underground network for criminals.

[Terry Newton]

The reason OJ Simpson has a fake Rolex is he cannot own anything of value or it is subject to forfeit. He shells out 20 k a month on renting a pad so he can live in style. He cannot own property. The Goldman's cannot interfere with his pension which he lives nicely on. He cannot own real property and leases or rents everything so they can attach nothing to satisfy the suit against him. He is slicker than snot which has left the Goldman's in their .

Terry Newton

[scottschoe]

Originally Posted by striker27

Ijust hate that they are now starting to produce vintage replicas!!!! The parts are getting even hard to tell!!!!

Vintage replicas have been around for a long long time.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by applebook

Um...the problem with your analogy, buddy, is that jewelry doesn't have any functionality. A good mechanical timepiece cannot be "replicated" to perform the same way for generations like the real article, unless, of course, you spend as much on the fake as you would on the genuine product.

That watch for generations is a myth. Rolex will not work on a watch more than 40 years old. Plastic crystals appear to be the cutoff point at this point in time.

[vukotab]

I really don`t like fake watches.I mean,there`s nothing wrong with buying cheap watch.I`ve seen some Festina`s and Fossil`s with very nice,even prestigious design.So,why not buying them,instead of fakes?
And if you desperately want Rolex design,you can buy Invicta,Marcello or Marathon,all of them are solid hommage watches.

[mailman]

Originally Posted by JJ Irani

Agreed....you can shove a thousand Euros up any of my orifices.....rather than buy a fake!!

Keep your fetish to yourself, got it

[applebook]

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

That watch for generations is a myth. Rolex will not work on a watch more than 40 years old. Plastic crystals appear to be the cutoff point at this point in time.

Just because Rolex won't work on it doesn't mean that decent watchmakers can't. Your claim that watches do not last for generations can clearly and easily be disproven by simply having a look at eBay, where there are thousands of fully working vintage watches from 50,60, heck, 80+ years ago.

[DavidHasselhoff]

The only watch, or clock rather, I'd consider buying a replica of would be a John Harrisson Maritime timekeeper. I've seen replicas of H-1 and it looked really awesome.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by applebook

Just because Rolex won't work on it doesn't mean that decent watchmakers can't. Your claim that watches do not last for generations can clearly and easily be disproven by simply having a look at eBay, where there are thousands of fully working vintage watches from 50,60, heck, 80+ years ago.

Most are genuine fakes.

[armypilot]

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

Most are genuine fakes.

The facts do not support your statement. I've read many of your posts and you seem very opinionated for someone that by their own admission does not even own a Rolex. I have been a collector of fine timepieces for over thirty years. I have antique pocket watches that are in excess of 150 years old and they run as accurately as the day they were made. And yes, some of them were purchased on ebay, and yes they are serviced by the same AD that services my Rolex. There are many individuals that buy and sell on ebay that have the utmost integrity, I being one of them. Maybe if you were a little less opinionated and a little more open minded you may learn something from those of us that have been involved with time pieces for decades.

[AGENT4734]

Originally Posted by ryanj0

Indeed that is why fakes help you appreciate genuines more. Because a fake can look exactly like a real Rolex. A fake can move like a real Rolex.

The fact is though that a fake can never perform like a real rolex. One think I enjoy doing is going diving with a fake on one arm and a genuine on the other. It amazes me how easy it is to break and rust a fake with water!

But I enjoy my fakes because they can never be real therefore give me a greater appreciation. It is also fun to compare different fakes versus the genuines.

I suppose, unless you have bought a fake before, you would have no idea what i am talking about so I would not expect an educated opinion. Now if you are getting a fake to substitute a genuine you are completely out of line.

If you are getting a fake to compare out of sheer amazement of the genuine Rolex I say all power to you.

J. Ryan

Anyone that uses the word "fake" this many times in a single thread should be .

If you wear a FAKE watch that says a lot about your character and your personally. You obviously want people to think that you are someone you are not. Here in Arizona we have a stereotype about "you" people, they are called $30,000 millionaires! You would fit right in...

I have several expensive watches as well as a watch case full of $100+ watches. There are days that I will wear my $200 Nautica watch, but I would never wear a $200 FUGAZIE on my wrist. I really don't care if anyone notices my watch and 90% of the time my watch is tucked under my cuff. If you only wear a watch to impress strangers then you do not share the same values and ideas shared with us fellow TRF members.

This forum is not for you...

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by armypilot

The facts do not support your statement. I've read many of your posts and you seem very opinionated for someone that by their own admission does not even own a Rolex.

You read selectively, I call your attention to.
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=30359

[armypilot]

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

You read selectively, I call your attention to.
http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=30359

I've read the post and I am still not getting your point. You join this forum a couple of weeks ago and have continually posted as to how bad ebay is, and that everything to be had on it is fake. You've stated that all AD's are nothing more than sellers of trinkets and nose rings, and you have continually bashed things that you appear to have no direct knowledge and or experience with. I am just wondering as to where your personal experiences lay concerning the comments you continue to make. I am not launching a personal attack at you, it just seems that you have and share a lot of opinions about things that you appear to have little personal experince with.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by armypilot

I've read the post and I am still not getting your point. You join this forum a couple of weeks ago and have continually posted as to how bad ebay is, and that everything to be had on it is fake. You've stated that all AD's are nothing more than sellers of trinkets and nose rings, and you have continually bashed things that you appear to have no direct knowledge and or experience with. I am just wondering as to where your personal experiences lay concerning the comments you continue to make. I am not launching a personal attack at you, it just seems that you have and share a lot of opinions about things that you appear to have little personal experince with.

I read in this very group that an AD will not open a watch because of water proofing issues. How many AD do in-house repairs? I can't find one, if there are any the person behind the counter selling jewelry is not the watchmaker.

Ask Tiffney about FleeBay.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6030048/

Now I am not saying every seller is a crook but empirical evidence says many are, especially in high end items and eBay does nothing because they get a cut of the action.

The feedback system is rigged to give false high ratings as most will not swap negatives. Look at the “Platinum Power Sellers” selling fakes that speak louder than my words.
EBay is great for garage sale items but when one gets in the ten's of hundreds of dollars look the horse in the mouth very carefully.

[applebook]

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

Now I am not saying every seller is a crook but empirical evidence says many are, especially in high end items and eBay does nothing because they get a cut of the action.

Yeah, "most are genuine fakes."

Tell all the 50s Sub and GMT owners that their watches not only do not work anymore, but that they are all fakes.

[armypilot]

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

I read in this very group that an AD will not open a watch because of water proofing issues. How many AD do in-house repairs? I can't find one, if there are any the person behind the counter selling jewelry is not the watchmaker.

Ask Tiffney about FleeBay.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6030048/

Now I am not saying every seller is a crook but empirical evidence says many are, especially in high end items and eBay does nothing because they get a cut of the action.

The feedback system is rigged to give false high ratings as most will not swap negatives. Look at the “Platinum Power Sellers” selling fakes that speak louder than my words.
EBay is great for garage sale items but when one gets in the ten's of hundreds of dollars look the horse in the mouth very carefully.

I agree with you 100% when it comes to buying high dollar items on ebay. There is no stronger case for the term "caveat emptor". As far as an AD not wanting to open a Rolex due to not guaranteeing its water resistance, that may be an issue with that particular AD. My AD who is the owner as well as the primary on premises watch maker, works on my 1980 vintage GMT-Master as well as my 1969 vintage Omega Speedmaster Professional on a regular basis. He, as I stated in a previous post is certified and current through Rolex to perform repairs/services. He has an active parts account and when parts are needed for my watch, it usually takes him a week or less to get the parts through Rolex. Some of the more commonly replaced parts he maintains on hand. He is a superb watchmaker and has even had to hand make parts for some of my antique pocket watches. So to close this post I just want to say that there are good AD's out there that can repair/service vintage Rolexs that the RSC's will not work on and that with the proper care and maintenance a quality mechanical watch can run acccurately for more than a century, I have many that do.

[BTSinAustin]

Originally Posted by chevycorvette

this is the only fake that i love.

I hate those fakes too

[Tomi]

This is a little two faced conversation in my opinion..
All of us do like to see report-type researches with pictures, comparing differences between a genuine Rolex and counterfeits. Do you think that these comparison posts can be made without someone buying the latest fake at times?

It's not my hobby, but I'm glad that some of us do buy these fakes periodically to give us others some good lessons about them.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

Rolex will not work on a watch more than 40 years old.

That is an inaccurate blanket statement. Although RUSA may employ Draconian practices, the Toronto RSC recently overhauled this 48 year old Rolex cocktail watch for us. Service varies by country, with parts availability and ""exotic" dials being the deciding factors where I live.

Originally Posted by vukotab

you can buy Invicta,Marcello or Marathon,all of them are solid hommage watches.

Exactly. In my collection are a TT Sub with a Cdn retail of $9,760, and this Invicta 9937 with a sapphire crystal and Swiss ETA movement that I paid around $300 for. That's less than 1/3 of what my last Sub RSC overhaul cost. I'm the first to point out that it isn't a Rolex, but it's a pretty darned good watch for 300 bucks.

Originally Posted by applebook

Just because Rolex won't work on it doesn't mean that decent watchmakers can't. Your claim that watches do not last for generations can clearly and easily be disproven by simply having a look at eBay, where there are thousands of fully working vintage watches from 50,60, heck, 80+ years ago.

See below, this one's about 100 years old.

Originally Posted by armypilot

I have antique pocket watches that are in excess of 150 years old and they run as accurately as the day they were made. And yes, some of them were purchased on ebay,

Ditto. Here's my latest project, a W&D pre-Rolex Rolex restoration project from 1908, also from eBay.

[Earl Camembert]

Let me explain. A watch or a B-52 can be kept running forever. The problem with both is the parts. A 2008 B-52 does not have original 1968 B-52 parts but that is a good thing. When it comes to a watch depending on the collector it is a very bad thing. Rolex no longer makes parts for older movements. A skilled craftsman can, as I was told by Rolex, make parts. I was also told if a Rolex has one screw not made by Rolex it is a counterfeit and cannot be offered for sale.

The question is when does the watch stop being original and an heirloom and merely a reproduction.

[rolexconfuse]

I personally don't have any fake rolexes but i do know a few people who own some. And the biggest reason to why is this. They like the Rolex look and design but the idea of paying over 4 - 5K for a watch that's SS is just not value for the money. Is the movement in a Rolex sub better than a top of the line Swiss ETA movement? I don't know personally but to some it appears the answer is "NO". Some feel that the value of the watch should be between 1-2k, max of 3 for a SS sub. And the prices, it's been inflated year after year with virtually no real improvements in the movement.

For some, buying a fake does not involve showing it off, they wear it under their cuff, and only they know about it. They do not flaunt it and when asked they say it's a fake.
For some this is closest to actually owning a watch that they like without spending a fortunate.

One person explained it to me like this. I like van gogh but i don't want to pay for even a small one but I'll buy a poster of it and frame the sucker.

[mikey]

After doing a little internet research:
Fact-ALL Fakes made in China-No Italy-No Turkey-unless assembly but parts from china
Fact 2-Illegal to sell
Fact 3-No QC so hit or miss on what you get
Fact 4-Paying 1000 or 3500 is overpaying
Fact 5-Swiss ETA or Swiss Made means a Japan ETA fake or Swiss eta parts assembled in China.
Fact 6-The best rep will only cost you $350 Max
Fact 7-Flaws on the dial-Always-Crown Guards-Rehaut
Fact 8-Mods done for gen parts to be added,at what cost? It can be done.
Fact 9-Popular Models are Sub and SD
Fact 10-Date Mag is fisheye like Invicta 8926 or 3X Mag overpowered ,and 2.5X mag on the $200 range.
Rolex Rep are water proof depending on where you purchase from. They do exist. Just like your gens.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by mikey

Fact 5-Swiss ETA or Swiss Made means a Japan ETA fake or Swiss eta parts assembled in China.

ETA only very recently stopped selling movements to anyone. On another forum the last Swiss 7750 movements were sold last month for $375 delivered; this is the same movement used in high end watches costing thousands of dollars. There will most likely be no more. They used to be had for $250 a year ago. A Chinese 7750 sells for $115. These are group buy prices.

Quality falls apart in putting the watch together not in the manufacture of the movement. The movements suffer when they are modified to do something they are not supposed to do.

This post is not about fakes but about movements.

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by rolexconfuse

Is the movement in a Rolex sub better than a top of the line Swiss ETA movement? I don't know personally but to some it appears the answer is "NO".

I have an ETA 7751 that is three moons old and can't do better than 10 seconds a day fast. I have a 38 year old 1556 that has been running for a week and is at this point in time is one second fast. When I take the watches off I place them to adjust for fast or slow but it has little to no effect on the ETA.

[Alcan]

Originally Posted by Earl Camembert

ETA only very recently stopped selling movements to anyone.

This "story" goes back to summer 2002, when Swatch announced that they would gradually reduce delivery of ETA ébauches to customers outside the Swatch Group and that such sales would be completely stopped by the end of 2005.

The Swiss Federal Committee for Fair Trading (WeKo)was activated by some of the customers claiming an illicit use of a position of power by the Swatch Group.

In winter 2004 an agreement was reached between ETA and the WeKo. ETA agreed to continue delivery of their movements until 2010, but the numbers will be gradually decreased. Based on the average number of movements that a customer had bought between 1999 and 2001 as a reference, Eta will only deliver 85 % of the reference figure in 2008, 50 % in 2009, and 25 % in 2010. Price increases are only allowed in the range of the inflation rate.

Here´s the agreement (PDF, sorry only in German):

http://www.weko.admin.ch/publikation...PHPSESSID=951c...

[Earl Camembert]

Originally Posted by Alcan

Based on the average number of movements that a customer had bought between 1999 and 2001 as a reference, Eta will only deliver 85 % of the reference figure in 2008, 50 % in 2009, and 25 % in 2010. Price increases are only allowed in the range of the inflation rate.

There is already a shortage of chronograph ETA 7750/7751 movements the most desirable. The others are still fairly easy to get.