Rolex 1680 Red Sub Complete Restoration - Bob Ridley

[GR8 White Hope]

Hi All,

I am a long time watcher of the forum. About ten years ago my father gave me a 1680 Red Sub that he bought new when he was a younger man. He wore it every day for a very very long time and wanted to pass it down to me as I graduated college and set out into the professional world.

I absolutely love the watch and wore it a ton until the bracelet started to give out about 3 years ago. I was fearful that the bracelet would ultimately fail and I would lose the watch in the process. Out of paranoia I decided to put the watch in my safety deposit box until I could safe the money to do a proper and complete restoration of the watch. My father never had it serviced and I had it only serviced once since I became the new owner.

Fast forward three year, and it's May 2014. I began exhaustive research of the watch servicing. I now have a two year old son and wanted the watch to be completely restored and brought up to the highest standards so that it could stand the test of time and one day I could pass it down to my son and he to his son one day. In my searching Bob Ridley's name kept on coming to the top of the list.

In June I spoke with Bob after shipping my watch to him and Barbara Piazza (his assistant). He went over in great detail all the options to the watch and I took all suggestions minus a complete band replacement (an extra $1,200 option). The watch was in his possession for about 6 weeks and had literally everything you can think of done to it including the laser welding reinforcement of the hands to the tune of $3,000 which was a hard pill for me to swallow but considering the watch is valued (via Bob Ridley) at $12,000 it seemed worth the price tag to ensure it was repaired by the best to the most demanding standards.

It was a little odd not hearing from the folks over at Watchmakers International during the process. I emailed and called several times to follow up on the progress. In seeing others posts, I was somewhat expecting some periodic updates with pictures and at least some details. After getting a little upset and expressing my displeasure with the line of communication and the customer service, Bob responded and apologized. I assumed at the time they had more business than they could keep up with.

I received the watch back in July and it looked absolutely stunning and more than I expected. There were some cracks and wears in the original band (folded SS links) that Bob welded and fixed amongst a laundry list of other things. I showed it to my Dad and he was extremely impressed with the work as well. I was a happy customer and was waiting to replenish some funds in anticipation of getting a new bracelet in early 2015. The thought Bob and I had was that these original folded stainless steel bracelets are extremely rare so in order to continue wearing the watch as a daily wearer, we would get the genuine replacement band and put the original in the safety deposit box.

Fast forward... two weeks ago I received a very disturbing email from a former employee of Bob's who I corresponded with a good bit while my watch was being serviced. I am paraphrasing here but this person explained in the email that he/she left the company due to a conflict of ethics in so many words. He/she indicated that my watch and many of the watches that Bob works on are not in fact serviced by him and given the spa treatment that we all have come to expect. Some are but many are not. Many of the jobs are doled out to his son Phillip who is not certified and passed off as being serviced by Bob. He/she said there was likely nothing wrong with the watch or damaged but it was not really serviced by Bob and given the spa treatment I was lead to believe. The expertise and detailed care I paid for was not given. The former employee also sent a line from a spreadsheet that had my watch order, serial number if I remember correctly and the order was fulfilled by PR... Philip Ridley. It looked like a copy and paste job out of a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet.

I was shocked, upset and absolutely sick to my stomach when I read this. I emailed Bob about the startling allegations and he forwarded a notarized release from Barbara retracting her statements. Bob denied all allegations and vehemently denied all the claims in the former employee's email.

I was going to get the bracelet from Bob in January but now that all of this has happened my confidence has shaken. It could very well be that he was the object of an scorned employee. Maybe he/she made all of this up to "get him back".

I tell you all this because if I were in another's shoes I would want to know. I don't want to believe this and was hoping y'all can convince me there is nothing to worry about.

[cajuntiger]

Originally Posted by GR8 White Hope

I received the watch back in July and it looked absolutely stunning and more than I expected.

It seems like the restoration exceeded your expectations.

[V.lats97nsx]

Wow Bob really pissed off Barbara.

[CrownMe]

^^ Yup the truth is ugly sometimes

[QueueCumber]

Who knows? I'm glad I avoided all of this fiasco via the advice from some vintage experts and decided to use ABS Watchwerks long before this whole debacle went down...

[GTS Dean]

A reputable craftsman teaching his son or daughter a valuable skill in trade bothers me not at all, if the quality of the product meets or exceeds the expectations of the customer. I've not heard of anyone who was unhappy with work out of Ridley's shop. What we have here (on the surface) is an unhappy employee and a number of allegations yet to be proven.

I've had both exemplary and poor refinishing service from the 'highly skilled Rolex Watchmakers' at RSC Dallas. My OQ isn't ruined, but its bevels will never be the same. I should have done the refinishing myself.

[SubKing]

I have worked with barb many times over the phone. I worked with her more than Bob... She was always so sweet and nice.. Its so hard for me to believe she would go to those lengths to make all that up. Too much detail.. She would have to be really coo-coo to be able to make up stories like the ones she told.

I can imagine Bob threatened to sue the pants off Barb to get barb to retract her statements via notarized letter.

but who knows how much of her stories were stretched by anger and how much wasn't. Either way, I think it left everyone with an uncomfortable feeling about Watch Makers International..

I think the part that bothers people the most is that the communication was bad, and some work done was out of character.. So, some of what barb said fit the bill.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by GTS Dean

I've not heard of anyone who was unhappy with work out of Ridley's shop. What we have here (on the surface) is an unhappy employee and a number of allegations yet to be proven.

1) Most will not post about negitave results on the open forum. Many reasons..
2) most can and have been verified. Do a little homework and you will become educated.

[CrownMe]

Originally Posted by GTS Dean

A reputable craftsman teaching his son or daughter a valuable skill in trade bothers me not at all, if the quality of the product meets or exceeds the expectations of the customer. I've not heard of anyone who was unhappy with work out of Ridley's shop. What we have here (on the surface) is an unhappy employee and a number of allegations yet to be proven.

I've had both exemplary and poor refinishing service from the 'highly skilled Rolex Watchmakers' at RSC Dallas. My OQ isn't ruined, but its bevels will never be the same. I should have done the refinishing myself.

there is nothing wrong with teaching your son or daughter a trade. But charging a premium for a "Bob Ridley Spa treatment" and having somebody else do it IS.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by GR8 White Hope

Hi All,
Bob denied all allegations and vehemently denied all the claims in the former employee's email.

I tell you all this because if I were in another's shoes I would want to know. I don't want to believe this and was hoping y'all can convince me there is nothing to worry about.

Hi GR,
Sorry to hear this situation has cause you so much stress. Most likely your fathers watch is fine. If you are concerned and have access to a decent camera, you can take some high resolution pictures of the dial, hands, case and bracelet and send them privately to one of the forum's experts (I'm sure there are several that will help) to see if there are any issues. If something is discovered and if was never serviced before WI, you should have pretty good confidence where the issue occurred.

My fathers watch was passed down to me as well, and I endured the same feelings you are experiencing.

Hope you find this helpful.

By the way, can you share specifically which allegations Bob Ridley denied?

Cd

[V.lats97nsx]

Being a son of a prominent stone mason. It took me 8 years of experience working side by side next to my father before I got to do my own projects. Even though my father had full trust in me, some customers didn't. They wanted my father's work not mine. They payed a premium for this even though the outcome would be the same. So I understand Bob's reasoning. The OP says his son is not a certified watch maker. Maybe Bob feels differently. Maybe his son is better than him? Who knows. Maybe Bob and Barbara need to go on Jerry springer and settle this. ANYWAYS all I'm saying is what happens to Bob's service when he's gone? Your right his son.

[handsfull]

Originally Posted by v.lats97nsx

...The OP says his son is not a certified watch maker. Maybe Bob feels differently. Maybe his son is better than him? Who knows.

Is his son better? Wouldn't know, wouldn't care. You paid for Bob and his years of craftsmanship and certificates of achievement.

If his son/brother/sister/uncle/cousin is a competent watchmaker, regardless of how Bob may 'feel'.....why isn't he certified (say CW21)? At Ridley's billing rate, you had better be getting exactly what you paid for IMNsoHO.

[SubKing]

OP, can you please post some pictures of this beautiful piece you're speaking of? I would like to see before and after pictures if possible.

[Robbyvm]

if you are happy with the result (and i read this in your post) the goal is reached...
i believe that it is ofthen the staff of the boss that does most of the work in several companies

do you believe that Michale Young restores all the bracelets sent to his office ? ok the prices for these restorations are not to be compared with the rates BR charges but to me the result of the work is the most important.

Some of the world famous paintings are in fact not painted by the master himself but by the student and still the masters signature is on them and the value of these paintings will never be affected...

just my 2 cents

and now some pics of this gorgeous Red Sub please ???

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by Robbyvm

if you are happy with the result (and i read this in your post) the goal is reached...
i believe that it is ofthen the staff of the boss that does most of the work in several companies

do you believe that Michale Young restores all the bracelets sent to his office ? ok the prices for these restorations are not to be compared with the rates BR charges but to me the result of the work is the most important.

Some of the world famous paintings are in fact not painted by the master himself but by the student and still the masters signature is on them and the value of these paintings will never be affected...

just my 2 cents

and now some pics of this gorgeous Red Sub please ???

x2, well said.

[bayerische]

So many good things said about BR on this forum, big deal if his son works there and does some of the work...

Steve Jobs didn't make all my Apple gear.

[FTX I]

welcome. intriguing first post btw.

[R.W.T.]

All of these terms certified watchmaker are slightly dubious...etc...until the mandate from Rolex that all account holders must be AWCI CW21 certified...Bob was not "certified" either in that regard...was he still capable of good work...well...people say that he is. Another VERY prominent watchmaker that I know that is VERY highly regarded in the vintage field that many of you have probably used....turns out was not "certified" either. He does VERY good work.

Bob's son attended watchmaking school in Paris, Texas where Bob himself attended school. I know lots of watchmakers in Texas that went to school there. It's a good program. You don't walk out of there "certified". And once again certified for what and by whom?

The man who taught me and mentored me apprenticed under a German Master at the age of 13 in 1939 and aced watchmaking school in the 40's after the war....is certified and trained by Rolex New York. ROLEX won't even recognize their OWN certificate. So what the F does certified really mean anyway?

I'm not saying there is anything wrong with being "certified".

Because someone is not "certified" doesn't necessarily mean they aren't capable and I'm not just supporting my own work. I very seldom solicit work unless I feel I can really help someone who is hitting a brick wall. People come to me. I think most of the people I have assisted with their watches are happy with what I have done for them.

I always just try to put the cards on the table. Buzz words...are buzz words.

[DiamondJack]

I know we all have OCD when it comes to our watches but in the real world we cannot dictate who actually works on them.....

All we can do is expect the company you select to do the work to apply the same service standards on the end product. So providing Bob supervised the work and it met Bob's normal high standards, then that would be fine for me.

You say you were extremely happy with the quality of the work.... I therefore struggle to understand why that changes your opinion just because Bob may not have done the work personally.

In any field, you ultimately pay for the supervision and cannot control who does the work. I have my suits made by a well known tailor in London but I'm sure the work is never done by the owner but by his staff and then checked. When I advise clients as a Partner in my firm, my role is supervisory and even though I sign out the letters, in most cases, I have not written them. It's life..... so unless Bob is advertising that all work is done by him and only him, then the Bob Ridley Spa treatment is just a term for the work meeting his normal high standards..... But just my 2 cents.....

[Gibson45]

Originally Posted by DiamondJack

I know we all have OCD when it comes to our watches but in the real world we cannot dictate who actually works on them.....

All we can do is expect the company you select to do the work to apply the same service standards on the end product. So providing Bob supervised the work and it met Bob's normal high standards, then that would be fine for me.

You say you were extremely happy with the quality of the work.... I therefore struggle to understand why that changes your opinion just because Bob may not have done the work personally.

In any field, you ultimately pay for the supervision and cannot control who does the work. I have my suits made by a well known tailor in London but I'm sure the work is never done by the owner but by his staff and then checked. When I advise clients as a Partner in my firm, my role is supervisory and even though I sign out the letters, in most cases, I have not written them. It's life..... so unless Bob is advertising that all work is done by him and only him, then the Bob Ridley Spa treatment is just a term for the work meeting his normal high standards..... But just my 2 cents.....

amen, the post would've made a lot more sense had the OP not been happy with the work

[R.W.T.]

"You say you were extremely happy with the quality of the work.... I therefore struggle to understand why that changes your opinion just because Bob may not have done the work personally"

In this regard I would have to agree with CrownMe....cause it's expensive..... and I think the reputation was built by Bob and if you are going to pay that kind of money you expect him to do the work or say up front this job is routine and charge a routine work price for work done by someone other than himself...but I can't dictate how someone else runs their business.

Just my humble opinion.

[CaveDiver]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

"You say you were extremely happy with the quality of the work.... I therefore struggle to understand why that changes your opinion just because Bob may not have done the work personally"

In this regard I would have to agree with CrownMe....cause it's expensive..... and I think the reputation was built by Bob and if you are going to pay that kind of money you expect him to do the work or say up front this job is routine and charge a routine work price for work done by someone other than himself...but I can't dictate how someone else runs their business.

Just my humble opinion.

In addition: I maybe reading between the lines, but got the impression that the author of the thread may not be an expert and able to make the determination if something is amiss with his watch.

[QueueCumber]

A lot of people defending the company in this thread, but from what I have read it appears that Bob said HE DOES the work. If he says this and then someone else does work, then that really isn't very honest, so I can understand the apprehension people are having. This is because once someone appears to be dishonest in this business it seems to become a slippery slope where the line between honesty and dishonesty keeps moving in a worse direction...

[R.W.T.]

I think this will just sort itself up or down as most things do.

[cajuntiger]

There are many assumptions going on in this thread. Does anyone here know for a fact that Bob isn't doing the work? If you don't know this, then why are we assuming the worst?

I have spoken to Bob and he is emphatic that he does the work himself...other than one person who has disputed this can anyone say for certainty that this is not the case?

[QueueCumber]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

There are many assumptions going on in this thread. Does anyone here know for a fact that Bob isn't doing the work? If you don't know this, then why are we assuming the worst?

I have spoken to Bob and he is emphatic that he does the work himself...other than one person who has disputed this can anyone say for certainty that this is not the case?

No one can say for certain either way now. That IS the problem... LOL!

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

There are many assumptions going on in this thread. Does anyone here know for a fact that Bob isn't doing the work? If you don't know this, then why are we assuming the worst?

I have spoken to Bob and he is emphatic that he does the work himself...other than one person who has disputed this can anyone say for certainty that this is not the case?

I think it's the fact that bob's sons have and still do work there, So it leaves a possibility that makes everyone feel uneasy. Being bob can do what ever he wants once he has our watches and we would never know what is really going on with our watches..

Then barb comes out and says a lot of things that we don't know to be true or not true.

But some of what she said added up with the communication problems and such.

I am not saying these things did or did not happen because I will never know. But I think enough was done and said from other members experiences and Barb's accusations that left everyone feeling un easy to the point that BR is no longer their first choice.

How mad would bob have to make Barb to push her to the point that she would want to make all this up to ruin his reputation? For her to put the time and effort she has and to make it all up?

What kind of relationship Barb and Bob had is the real question and how it ended is obviously what caused all these problems.....

[cajuntiger]

All I am saying is that some here are making assumptions with little or no facts.

This is a mans reputation and livelihood were talking about. If you don't have facts, then don't post rumors or opinions which could harm his reputation.

[SubKing]

Originally Posted by cajuntiger

All I am saying is that some here are making assumptions with little or no facts.

This is a mans reputation and livelihood were talking about. If you don't have facts, then don't post rumors or opinions which could harm his reputation.

I don't think conversation from concerned members here on TRF would be considered as spreading rumors.. The damage has already been done, Now it's just damage control at this point. I find nothing wrong with members expressing their concerns over some of the serious allegations that have been made.

We are all here to help each other.

[Kingair]

If everyone is happy . . . so am I ;)