Questions on buying older models

[JJack]

Hi! This is my first post on this site, but I have been a member on several other watch forums for a while before joining recently here. I buy and resell watches and I recently came up with a goal: start off with a couple cheap watches and flip them up until I have enough money to buy a Rolex. I know it is an ambitious goal, but I have done things equally as hard before and I love the challenge.

It doesn't matter what model or year Rolex, only that is a ROLEX. The point of this is to go from near nothing to a Rolex, I understand that buying a vintage entry level Rolex there is better deals to be had on other watches. I think it would be a great converation starter.

So, I found on eBay some old Bubblebacks, Oysterdates, and Oyster Perpetuals all generally selling in the $1,200 to $1,500 range. There is also some on Craigslist and local estate sales around that price. I fully understand that price is very, very low for the watch, but the point of this goal is to get any Rolex, not something super new or fancy.

So the question is, are those sub $2,000 Rolexes on eBay worth it? I would post links but I don't want to break forum rules. Should I expect fake watches at that price? Do these watches have tendencies to break down constantly after 20+ years or so?

I know a decent bit about watches, but I don't know much about Rolexes. Please remember I am doing this mainly to say I did it, this is not an investment. I have to learn a lot on the way :)

[Jamiewabbit]

A date just 1601?

[joe100]

Stay off of eBay and Craigslist since you're so new to rolex. Our sellers here will set you up and you can be certain you're getting an original rolex.

DateJusts, AirKings, Dates and OPs are all found under $2500. Why not spend some time here looking at the vintage section and find a model you want. If you cast a wide net before buying you'll be more informed and maybe you'll find a model you like. Just because it says rolex doesn't mean it's the rolex for you

[R.W.T.]

Really....you need to decide WHAT you want in the way of a Rolex from any period and then ask some questions.

Bubble backs can be great watches.

On Stainless steel models original dial is half the value or more. So a refinished dial watch can be a bargain for you if that is not a concern.

The service on that watch is going to be the same easily as it would on a more modern watch so keep that in mind.

Do you want an automatic or hand wound?

Size?

Era?

Ease of care and fragility?

Sometimes these things are not as big of concern as others.

40's and some 50's bubble back watches are not shock resistant. You drop it...the staff is toast generally. That's costly.

If you are careful and don't wear it like a G-Shock then you don't have to worry...they make great daily drivers and they work better if worn consistently.

If you are kind of a workhorse watch guy...get a 60's 70's date or date just. You can't go wrong.

But just ASK before you buy. Don't buy then start asking....you'll get into trouble and pay too much for what you seek. Better to pay a fair price and KNOW what you are getting than too much or too little and get a "surprise".

Some things can be a bargain because of the lack of knowledge of others or because of lack of overall desirability. Everyone gravitates now toward Subs and Gmt and the like....there are lots of cool Rolex that aren't.

[andromeda160]

Get something with a 15xx series movement or a 12xx series. Both incredibly robust movements. Bubble backs are beautiful, but too fragile. atleast for my fairly active lifestyle, plus parts are a pain in the butt to find and aren't as cheap/eas y to service as newer models.
Models I'd suggest checking:1002, 5500, 1600, 6426, 6694, and 1500, plus their variants (diff model #s for different bezels)
Plenty of us out there love midsize Rolex, they're classy, comfy, and offer a variety of options at a great price, you're not going to get rich off it, but if you buy right, you definitely won't lose much if anything.

[RazorD]

I'd stay away from eBay or Craigslist until you know what you are looking for. There's tons of great info here that can help. Check the list Vintage dealers for some suggestions on great vendors to buy from here. Also, the TRF classified section with trusted sellers can be a great source.

For that price point, I'd say a 1600, 1601 or 1603 would be nice.

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by andromeda160

Get something with a 15xx series movement or a 12xx series. Both incredibly robust movements. Bubble backs are beautiful, but too fragile. atleast for my fairly active lifestyle, plus parts are a pain in the butt to find and aren't as cheap/eas y to service as newer models.
Models I'd suggest checking:1002, 5500, 1600, 6426, 6694, and 1500, plus their variants (diff model #s for different bezels)
Plenty of us out there love midsize Rolex, they're classy, comfy, and offer a variety of options at a great price, you're not going to get rich off it, but if you buy right, you definitely won't lose much if anything.

Sorry for the slight hijack, I have been looking at bubbleback watches and I am generally quite careful with my watches (my seiko beaters are made for abuse). Can they still be worn daily when doing regular non active things like office stuff? Or is the risk of ruining the balance staff too great?

Being a watchmaking student I know how thin/fragile these balance staffs are but these days we can trust our Incabloc or KIF, and I have no experience with these very very old movements.

[andromeda160]

An office is fine, They mainly require tight service intervals from what I understand, otherwise they wear out parts fairly quickly. I go fishing, Biking, swimming, shooting, and plenty of other recreational activities in my watches so I prefer something with a bit of shock resistance. Plenty of people have worn bubblebacks for the past 70 years without issue though, as long as your careful, you shouldn't have a problem. A semi BB made it to the peak of Everest. They aren't as fragile as china, but I believe servicing is expected every 3-5 years, and parts aren't cheap when they do break. If you can service it though, that would take the cost of ownership down quite a bit.

I love them, but when it comes to parts availability, price, and longevity between services and robustness the 15xx series movements are just easier to own.


R.W.T is an expert on them though, I'd imagine he could give you some more info on care/how careful you'd have to be. Though an office environment seems about as safe as you can get for one.

[SearChart]

Thanks Greg!

[JJack]

Thanks for the replies! All help, advice and info is greatly appreciated :)

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by SearChart

Sorry for the slight hijack, I have been looking at bubbleback watches and I am generally quite careful with my watches (my seiko beaters are made for abuse). Can they still be worn daily when doing regular non active things like office stuff? Or is the risk of ruining the balance staff too great?

Being a watchmaking student I know how thin/fragile these balance staffs are but these days we can trust our Incabloc or KIF, and I have no experience with these very very old movements.

You're not going to break a staff unless you drop it. :-)

They are very robust watches. The issue with them is that many have NOT been serviced regularly so there is already wear in the autowind. They are nearing 70+ years old. Now this can be addressed many ways...but they still may operate just fine as they are as long as they are cleaned and lubricated. Service interval is really about the same 5 years...but you need to do it. There are just many grades of condition of the automatic sections. Some are mint...some are junk...some are repaired some are repaired better..some are slightly worn...it runs the gamut.

As a watchmaking student you would do well to learn these movements.
If you can learn to do jeweling then you can fix the autowinds where they will never give trouble. :-) It's a lot of time and effort but that is the way rolex ended up fixing the issues. Steel pivots in brass holes with no lubrication..the steel is gonna win and they just wear out.

If you like that style of watch....you should get one. If you can learn to service it you will never have a problem. You will learn to staff balances anyway so you won't have a problem really there either. You're not going to break many. Once you have to staff one and re-poise the wheel yourself...you will be very careful
:-)

If you need any assistance please PM me. or write to me at [email protected]

T

[JJack]

Hi guys! Just want to update this thread, I have been looking at several specific Rolex models in my price range, namely the Oysterdate, DateJust, and Airking. I have found quite a few Oysterdates in the $1,000-$1,400 range, but I am thinking the Datejust might be a better watch for the price. I don't know much about the Airking at all.

All advice and help is greatly appreciated :)

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

You're not going to break a staff unless you drop it. :-)

They are very robust watches. The issue with them is that many have NOT been serviced regularly so there is already wear in the autowind. They are nearing 70+ years old. Now this can be addressed many ways...but they still may operate just fine as they are as long as they are cleaned and lubricated. Service interval is really about the same 5 years...but you need to do it. There are just many grades of condition of the automatic sections. Some are mint...some are junk...some are repaired some are repaired better..some are slightly worn...it runs the gamut.

As a watchmaking student you would do well to learn these movements.
If you can learn to do jeweling then you can fix the autowinds where they will never give trouble. :-) It's a lot of time and effort but that is the way rolex ended up fixing the issues. Steel pivots in brass holes with no lubrication..the steel is gonna win and they just wear out.

If you like that style of watch....you should get one. If you can learn to service it you will never have a problem. You will learn to staff balances anyway so you won't have a problem really there either. You're not going to break many. Once you have to staff one and re-poise the wheel yourself...you will be very careful
:-)

If you need any assistance please PM me. or write to me at [email protected]

T

Thank you for your comment!

Originally Posted by JJack

Hi guys! Just want to update this thread, I have been looking at several specific Rolex models in my price range, namely the Oysterdate, DateJust, and Airking. I have found quite a few Oysterdates in the $1,000-$1,400 range, but I am thinking the Datejust might be a better watch for the price. I don't know much about the Airking at all.

All advice and help is greatly appreciated :)

The AirKing is a great watch but a bit small at 34mm, it wouldn't bother me but I'd try one on before you decide something.
The DateJust is just a true classic and with so many around I'm sure you can find a nice one for around $2k.

[Old Expat Beast]

Originally Posted by JJack

Hi guys! Just want to update this thread, I have been looking at several specific Rolex models in my price range, namely the Oysterdate, DateJust, and Airking. I have found quite a few Oysterdates in the $1,000-$1,400 range, but I am thinking the Datejust might be a better watch for the price. I don't know much about the Airking at all.

All advice and help is greatly appreciated :)

Bear in mind that Oysterdates are manual wind. If you want automatic, the dial should say Oyster Perpetual, like the Air-King, Datejust, Submariner, Explorer, etc, etc,,,

[RazorD]

What's your size preference? For me, I prefer 36-40 so I have to rule out the 34s. They look great on some people but I find them underwhelming whenever I try them on.

[JJack]

Thanks again for the replies, very helpful info.

I am still really interested in the older 1960s/1970s Oysterdates and Datejusts under $2,000. My wrists are very small compared to average, smaller watches tend to look nice on me.

Out of curiosity, if a movement failed on a vintage Rolex such as this, how much would the repair estimate be? $400? $800? I am guessing from what I have seen that I can expect to be $200-$300 every several years for servicing and I am OK with that

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by JJack

Thanks again for the replies, very helpful info.

I am still really interested in the older 1960s/1970s Oysterdates and Datejusts under $2,000. My wrists are very small compared to average, smaller watches tend to look nice on me.

Out of curiosity, if a movement failed on a vintage Rolex such as this, how much would the repair estimate be? $400? $800? I am guessing from what I have seen that I can expect to be $200-$300 every several years for servicing and I am OK with that

If parts are available it can be repaired for a reasonable price, if parts need to be fabricated it could cost a hell of a lot more.

[R.W.T.]

Let's be realistic. Rolex produced probably close to between 5 and 10 MILLION 15xx series movements. No one will EVER be fabricating parts for that movement....unless it is to SAVE money.

[harry in montreal]

An air King is your best bet. It's affordable. Substantial and has the feel you want. You can swim with them and wear them anywhere. You will have an easy time reading up as well. BBs are cool but not as liquid.

[cosmoliu]

Particularly if you have small wrists, you should learn more about the Air King, particularly the 5500. Just Google Rolex Air King. Great history and back story, so when/if anybody ever asks about it, it will make for a great conversation. My wrist measures about 7", and while a 36-39mm watch would fit well, I just prefer the feel of my 34mm watch(es). I also like how they fly totally under the radar.

[JJack]

I researched the Air King and really like it. So far, the three models I like are the Oysterdate, Datejust, and Air King. They all are around my price range, and the sizes are all about the same. I would prefer an automatic, something the Oysterdate 6694 lacks, but most Datejusts are slightly more than my budget.

Comparing a vintage Air King to a Datejust to a Oysterdate, what should I be aware of? All three models appear to be very similar to each other

EDIT: Also, regarding the prices of repair. If I bought a running watch on eBay would it be a good idea to send it in for service immediately? How much would I expect service to cost for a vintage model from Rolex compared to a private watchmaker?

[SearChart]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

Let's be realistic. Rolex produced probably close to between 5 and 10 MILLION 15xx series movements. No one will EVER be fabricating parts for that movement....unless it is to SAVE money.

You are correct, there is no part shortage for those movements.
From what era would you say parts are getting hard to find?

[R.W.T.]

Originally Posted by SearChart

You are correct, there is no part shortage for those movements.
From what era would you say parts are getting hard to find?

I'd say certain things for 10xx calibres are scarce. It's also because they are a 5 year manufacture.

Not very long.

Balances for 6xx and 7xx calibers are always tough. Anything pre shock.

[andromeda160]

Originally Posted by JJac k

I researched the Air King and really like it. So far, the three models I like are the Oysterdate, Datejust, and Air King. They all are around my price range, and the sizes are all about the same. I would prefer an automatic, something the Oysterdate 6694 lacks, but most Datejusts are slightly more than my budget.

Comparing a vintage Air King to a Datejust to a Oysterdate, what should I be aware of? All three models appear to be very similar to each other

EDIT: Also, regarding the prices of repair. If I bought a running watch on eBay would it be a good idea to send it in for service immediately? How much would I expect service to cost for a vintage model from Rolex compared to a private watchmaker?

Oysterdate hugs the wrist well, more of a domed crystal and thinner profile because it doesn't have a auto rotor, air kings sit a bit higher because of the rotor, I had a TT version, aesthetically it was pleasing, but I prefered the slimmer profile of my 6426. DJ is 2mm wider than the Oysterdate and AK, has a chronometer grade movement, the AK & Oysterdate don't, the DJ is a timeless classic and the most iconic midsize next to the DD.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a DJ in the 1800 range

[R.W.T.]

A Oyster Perpetual Date is probably a good bet for you.

Same size as the Oysterdate Precision but automatic. Same movement as a date just just a different size.

1500 1501 1503 or the similar in a 5 digit number gives quick set 3035 calibre.

[JJack]

Originally Posted by andromeda160

Oysterdate hugs the wrist well, more of a domed crystal and thinner profile because it doesn't have a auto rotor, air kings sit a bit higher because of the rotor, I had a TT version, aesthetically it was pleasing, but I prefered the slimmer profile of my 6426. DJ is 2mm wider than the Oysterdate and AK, has a chronometer grade movement, the AK & Oysterdate don't, the DJ is a timeless classic and the most iconic midsize next to the DD.

I'd be surprised if you couldn't find a DJ in the 1800 range

Thanks so much for the very valuable info! I think so much can be learned about a watch from handling one, I have never handled any Rolex so I don't know what to expect. So in your educated opinion, is the Datejust worth saving up for (possibly $500 more)? Also, does the production year really matter when it comes to vintage Rolex?

Many thanks!

[JJack]

Originally Posted by R.W.T.

A Oyster Perpetual Date is probably a good bet for you.

Same size as the Oysterdate Precision but automatic. Same movement as a date just just a different size.

1500 1501 1503 or the similar in a 5 digit number gives quick set 3035 calibre.

I've been looking at those as well, I do prefer the automatic movements. How does the Oyster Date compare to the Air King?

[Old Expat Beast]

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