Values on Rolex Explorers - 1016s. What am I missing?

[Another Newbie]

Hello, everyone.

I'm new the world of Rolexes and trying to learn all I can about these watches.

I've been watching these two Explorers on Ebay, and I don't understand why one seems to be more desirable than the other.

I would appreciate any thoughts or insights you would be kind enough to share.

Rolex Explorer A: Rolex Explorer 1016 Serial 807xxxx Black Dial - Gilt Men's Watch Excellent, circa 1983

http://www.ebay.com/itm/262433760566...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT



Rolex Explorer B:All Original Rolex Oyster Perpetual Explorer 1016 with Bracelet. Gilt Dial.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/162063417987...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT



Thank you,

Gregg

[waspy1]

The first watch is not a gilt dial and is not from the correct year or serial number to have had a gilt dial. It looks ok but it's a sub 10k usd watch.

The second is a gilt dial explorer from the correct year and serial number for the gilt period. It is much more sought after and will sell for significantly more.


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[speedolex]

1016 values go something like this:

Glossy Dial w/Gilt Printing: In good condition these go for over $10,000 and in very good condition with boxes and papers can go as high as $14,000. These were available for the first few years of production in the early 60's. People totally into vintage and nostalgia love the domed crystals, caramel colored dial markers and fading glossy dials which come from patina of age.

End Of Life Models: The last few years of the 1016 are highly desirable because many of us are on the other end of the spectrum, want the newest and most recent versions many of which have bright white dial markers. Models in very good condition from 1985-1990 can look almost brand new. These too can go for $10,000 or more to buyers who don't like the look of today's blingy models and want a factory-fresh matte dial Explorer.

Matching Hands and Dials: Critically important, no matter how old/new the 1016 is the ones going for $7,000 or more all have one thing in common- their hands and dial markings are the same shade of white/caramel. No one wants mis-matched hands and dial colors, it is very noticeable and grates on you over time.

For me, I wanted an as-new model that I could wear every day but I could not find a late 80's version on the market when I was ready to buy, would have spent the $10,000. Instead I found a version from 1960 with a 1980 Rolex replacement service dial and matching hands with a minty late 80's bracelet that was recently serviced (photo above) and got that for around $7,000 which is about the floor for an all-matching 1016 you'd be proud to own. Sort of pulled the end-around, got the late 80's condition on a first year 1016 and saved a lot of money in the process, was quite lucky.

Please let me know if you need further assistance, and good luck with the search. It's my favorite Rolex, it's just so damned good looking.

[77T]

Gregg
First off welcome to TRF. You have asked a question that is best answered thusly - originality, condition, completeness.

So many of the vintage Rolexes had a hard life in the early years on their owner's wrists. Nobody back then could expect the high demand we now see, and the spectacular appreciation in prices.

So when a service interval came along, over polishing may have occurred. Also some non-Rolex parts found their way onto the watch. And very few owners kept all the boxes, papers, etc.

Believe it or not, the messy hoarder who never maintained the watch (and who can lay hands on the watch they threw back into the Rolex box when it stopped) is sitting on a veritable gold mine.

For your search, maybe engage a well-known trusted vintage seller here. That will save you the disappointment of paying too much for a frankenwatch, or worse. There is a listing in a sticky here to help find one:
List of vintage watch dealers http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=180461


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[waspy1]

Originally Posted by 77T

Gregg
First off welcome to TRF. You have asked a question that is best answered thusly - originality, condition, completeness.

So many of the vintage Rolexes had a hard life in the early years on their owner's wrists. Nobody back then could expect the high demand we now see, and the spectacular appreciation in prices.

So when a service interval came along, over polishing may have occurred. Also some non-Rolex parts found their way onto the watch. And very few owners kept all the boxes, papers, etc.

Believe it or not, the messy hoarder who never maintained the watch (and who can lay hands on the watch they threw back into the Rolex box when it stopped) is sitting on a veritable gold mine.

For your search, maybe engage a well-known trusted vintage seller here. That will save you the disappointment of paying too much for a frankenwatch, or worse. There is a listing in a sticky here to help find one:
List of vintage watch dealers http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=180461


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You are generally correct with your statements, however in the specific question regarding the pieces posted by the OP, you don't address the reason for the difference in price. They are in very similar condition, appear both original and are similarly complete. Therefore by your own assessment they should have similar prices.

The simple reason is that one is gilt and one is matte. For equal condition, gilt always commands a big premium.

[77T]

My input is to help the new member in a more general sense. I would not buy either watch from eBay.

By the way, Example "A" is not represented as original and one should not presume it is.



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[waspy1]

Originally Posted by 77T

My input is to help the new member in a more general sense. I would not buy either watch from eBay.

By the way, Example "A" is not represented as original and one should not presume it is.



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Fair point regarding eBay. A mine field for both buyers and sellers.

[Another Newbie]

I appreciate the insights.

Could anyone direct me to a images of an all original, high condition 1016 with a gilt dial and a matte dial?

Also, which bands & end pieces are correct for these watches?

Thanks again,

Gregg

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by Another Newbie

I appreciate the insights.

Could anyone direct me to a images of an all original, high condition 1016 with a gilt dial and a matte dial?

Also, which bands & end pieces are correct for these watches?

Thanks again,

Gregg

The answers to all your questions are found here:

http://www.hqmilton.com/watches/1966...1016-gilt-dial

Search for 1016 on that site, you'll find what you're looking for.

Note that the term "tropical" is probably not what you are seeking as those are not in "original high-condition" but rather are sunburned and weathered. As stated earlier in the thread, many vintage collectors like their pieces to show their age with a lot of patina and weathering, feels more authentic that way. I myself like a hint of dial fade and slightly creamy markers, but "tropical" is over the top for my needs.

[sopgeo]

I went through the same learning process. One thing I will say is that I read a ton of stuff about gilt dials and I then knew why they were desirable. However it wasn't until until I had one in my hands that I truely understood why they are desirable.

[Another Newbie]

Thanks for all the help, guys. Looks like I have some studying to do, which I love, btw.

Take care,

Gregg