16750 - Opinions welcome

[fizz]

I'm still learning about this magnificent model and I've dealt with this seller before but would still like some opinion on this 16750 that he is selling.

To me it looks like a very clean, very well preserved model but the price is quite high (USD 8500 for just the head, without bracelet).

Thoughts and opinions welcome - both on this piece and it's asking price.

[Vincent65]

8.5 ouch

[Qwerty01]

looks very nice both dial and faded insert. but a little overpriced I think even more so if head only

[Frosty]

Originally Posted by Vincent65

8.5 ouch

I have to agree! It is way to high with the bracelet! Without, "Run, Forrest, Run!" jmho

[fizz]

The price with the bracelet is USD 9.5k.

I hear what all of you are saying...but in the past 9 months, since I first started my hunt for the 5513 Maxi I now own, the prices of 1675 have rise quite a lot too. Honestly, I can't find examples as good as this for less than at least 9k USD. Just take a look at hqmilton...

[droptopman]

Been helping a friend shop for a 1675/16750 the last few weeks. Prices are up some, but this is overpriced IMHO. Nice example, but not 9.5K nice.

[avilhena]

Beautiful example! But i agree, the price is a little high

[Vincent65]

Originally Posted by fizz

The price with the bracelet is USD 9.5k.

I hear what all of you are saying...but in the past 9 months, since I first started my hunt for the 5513 Maxi I now own, the prices of 1675 have rise quite a lot too. Honestly, I can't find examples as good as this for less than at least 9k USD. Just take a look at hqmilton...

Yes, but this isn't a 1675. That '0' makes a difference, albeit a relatively small one.

[jban5]

I thought that the red didn't go all the way into the 8 in 18 by the time the 16750 was in production?

[GGGMT]

Too much cashish, bro!

[Qwerty01]

i think you have to be patient Fizz, i was in the exact position and was looking for an all original nice 1675. Found it after a few months around the 7k

[strafer_kid]

Originally Posted by Qwerty01

i think you have to be patient Fizz, i was in the exact position and was looking for an all original nice 1675. Found it after a few months around the 7k

Good advice - plenty of patience needed.

[CRM114]

I'll be a bit contrarian re the 8.5k. It's getting pretty tough to find a good-condition 16750 with non-corroded, original hands on an original matte dial (w/o the gold surround plots). You certainly aren't going to find them at bargain basement prices.

Good condition, all-original 1675s are far easier to find.

For 16750s, in the past during servicing many matte dials were replaced with glossy/plot-surround dials because this was a transitional model and the newer, glossy dials were thought of as an upgrade. Examples with replacement hands are common as well due to corrosion problems with the originals.

One of the experts here correct me if I'm wrong, but the one you've pictured I believe has a Mark 2 dial, which also aren't all that common. I'd say the only way you're going to find a good-condition 16750 for appreciably less is if you're willing to accept a glossy dial/replacement dial and/or bad condition/replacement hands examples.

[springer]

Originally Posted by CRM114

I'll be a bit contrarian re the 8.5k. It's getting pretty tough to find a good-condition 16750 with non-corroded, original hands on an original matte dial (w/o the gold surround plots). You certainly aren't going to find them at bargain basement prices.

Good condition, all-original 1675s are far easier to find.
Lb
For 16750s, in the past during servicing many matte dials were replaced with glossy/plot-surround dials because this was a transitional model and the newer, glossy dials were thought of as an upgrade. Examples with replacement hands are common as well due to corrosion problems with the originals.

One of the experts here correct me if I'm wrong, but the one you've pictured I believe has a Mark 2 dial, which also aren't all that common. I'd say the only way you're going to find a good-condition 16750 for appreciably less is if you're willing to accept a glossy dial/replacement dial and/or bad condition/replacement hands examples.

There is nothing rare about the dial. Insert should be a red back. .. appears to be a service insert. Expect to pay $8500 or more for a decent, complete16750. Condition, originality and service dictates the price.

[landroverking]

Way over priced IMO.

[speedolex]

Originally Posted by fizz

The price with the bracelet is USD 9.5k.

I hear what all of you are saying...but in the past 9 months, since I first started my hunt for the 5513 Maxi I now own, the prices of 1675 have rise quite a lot too. Honestly, I can't find examples as good as this for less than at least 9k USD. Just take a look at hqmilton...

If it's what you want, get it. It's only money, a few hundred here or there isn't something to concern yourself with, it's a well-wanted vintage model, its value will eventually rise to that level anyway.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by springer

There is nothing rare about the dial. Insert should be a red back. .. appears to be a service insert. Expect to pay $8500 or more for a decent, complete16750. Condition, originality and service dictates the price.

why should it be red / black?

16750s didnt offer the red / blue combo?

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by springer

There is nothing rare about the dial. Insert should be a red back. .. appears to be a service insert. Expect to pay $8500 or more for a decent, complete16750. Condition, originality and service dictates the price.

I agree there's nothing inherently rare about the dial. I didn't say it was rare, but I should have been clearer. My comment(s) is in the context of what the OP as a buyer will commonly find for a price substantially less than the 8.5K others seem to assure him is overpriced (and what generated my response).

From what I've observed for sale online but mainly by personally canvassing the many vintage and pre-owned shops as I travel but especially in HK (and always as a potential buyer, especially GMTs), matte dial/original hands 16750s are far less common in the flesh than their glossy-dial counterparts, and good examples are more closely following the upward trend in price commanded over the last couple years by the 1675s. If price trend is any guide, the matte dials seem to have firmly established themselves in the vintage zone, whereas the glossy examples not so much and okay deals can still be found.

As a starting point, it would be helpful if the OP indicated what his preference of 16750 is, or if he even has one. I personally prefer matte dial examples, so I don't consider what the going rate for glossy dial w/plot surround versions is when comparing. As far as we know, maybe he doesn't care what dial version of 16750 he's after or if it has original hands and/or dial.

[CRM114]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

why should it be red / black?

16750s didnt offer the red / blue combo?

He was indicating what color the back of an original, correct insert for an early 16750 should be (red back). Later 16750s began using blue back inserts, and still others have had blue back inserts made for other/later GMT/GMT II refs fitted to them.

[fizz]

Thanks everyone for continuing to pitch in. I've gone back to the seller and tried to negotiate but the lowest he's agreed to is USD 9.3k with bracelet (or USD 8.3k for just the head). I don't think I would pay more than 9k honestly so holding off for the moment.

In terms of preference, I don't care for either one of 1675 or 16750 as long as it's matt dial without white gold surrounds. Also, would prefer all original parts (hands, dial, insert etc.) preferably with faded insert if possible and more yellowish patina. This particular specimen ticks all the right boxes (except price of course!).

As CRM has indicated, 16750's in the above condition are harder to find than 1675's which makes them pricey, but if I did find a 1675 for the same condition as this for significantly lesser, I'd take that.

Also, I am still none the wiser on how you determine the color of the back of the insert from the pics I've posted??

[jban5]

I don't think, "with all things being equal" that you would find the 1675 to be cheaper than the 16750. They might be less common to find but I still think the earlier version sells for more.

I think in the case of this watch, if it were a 1675, and it were in pristine condition, and all the parts were original to the watch the asking price wouldn't be too far out of line. Being a 16750, I think it is too far out of line especially since there is some question about 100% originality.

[fizz]

Originally Posted by jban5

especially since there is some question about 100% originality.

You mean in reference to the insert or something else?

[jban5]

Yes, just the question of the insert. Did you look at Springers thread about GMT inserts on the Reference Library board? I am not any authority on them but it might help you clear the smoke by reading through it.

[adam78]

The values of these were pretty stagnant for most of the years since I bought mine, in 2008. But I have noticed a distinct upwards swing recently. Still, I think 9.5K with bracelet is a little steep. Perhaps 2-3K less is more in step with other dealers.

Mine (next to its gilt cousin):

[springer]

Originally Posted by adam78

The values of these were pretty stagnant for most of the years since I bought mine, in 2008. But I have noticed a distinct upwards swing recently. Still, I think 9.5K with bracelet is a little steep. Perhaps 2-3K less is more in step with other dealers.

Mine (next to its gilt cousin):

Please send me the dealer info for nice matte 16750s selling for $6500-$7,000. I've collected them for over a decade and the nice examples are far and few between now. Eight years ago is not the same as today, both in price and availability. Prices on GMT 16750s, 1675s vintage Subs and other models have all appreciated since 2008 and I would disagree that prices have been "stagnant" since 2008 when nice 16750s could be found between $3500-$4,000.

[alwayshere]

Originally Posted by CRM114

He was indicating what color the back of an original, correct insert for an early 16750 should be (red back). Later 16750s began using blue back inserts, and still others have had blue back inserts made for other/later GMT/GMT II refs fitted to them.

Sorry I misread - red BACK. got it. thanks for clarifying

[springer]

Originally Posted by alwayshere

Sorry I misread - red BACK. got it. thanks for clarifying

[fizz]

Originally Posted by springer

Please send me the dealer info for nice matte 16750s selling for $6500-$7,000. I've collected them for over a decade and the nice examples are far and few between now. Eight years ago is not the same as today, both in price and availability. Prices on GMT 16750s, 1675s vintage Subs and other models have all appreciated since 2008 and I would disagree that prices have been "stagnant" since 2008 when nice 16750s could be found between $3500-$4,000.

Springer makes complete sense. This is what you get when you try to buy a 6k vintage GMT today:

http://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=472330

[crewelz]

Way over polished, not rare, way over priced. Head only should be $5k or less. With bracelet about $6k.

[fizz]

Originally Posted by crewelz

Way over polished, not rare, way over priced. Head only should be $5k or less. With bracelet about $6k.

Really? Those are unheard of prices.

Do me a favour - send me links of currently on sale 1675/16750's in equivalent or better condition and I'll snatch them without asking.