Dial change for numbers match fraud?

[BigJer]

Was considering buying a vintage Tudor, but not sure after I learned the owner had swapped out the original dial for another used dial from another Tudor so he would have a watch with papers with numbers matching.

Is this okay or fraud?

[Richard Carver]

Dial has nothing to do with numbers. The dial color may be mentioned but it's the case number that matters. Does the case number match the papers?

[seabreeze60]

Originally Posted by BigJer

Was considering buying a vintage Tudor, but not sure after I learned the owner had swapped out the original dial for another used dial from another Tudor so he would have a watch with papers with numbers matching.

Is this okay or fraud?

I went thru this drama. Found out on the Forum about aftermarket watches. Once I found out that the face was aftermarket, I returned it the jeweler. Took to an AD and had confirmed that the base was Rolex but the face was aftermarket. The value goes done 40% with an aftermarket face. Ended up purchasing a second DJ with an altered face that he said was like new. Took it back to the jeweler and complained. He ended up purchasing a new DJ for me at his cost. What a hassle!

I'd stay away from altered an altered Rolex. Photo of the altered Rolex below.

[tamiya]

Originally Posted by BigJer

Was considering buying a vintage Tudor, but not sure after I learned the owner had swapped out the original dial for another used dial from another Tudor so he would have a watch with papers with numbers matching.

Is this okay or fraud?

How is it fraudulent if you the potential buyer is aware of it?

Dials aren't numbered to the case or movt, unless it's mentioned on original receipt there's no concrete proof what any example was originally equipped with from factory.

What vintage are we talking about anyways... in the real early Tudor years, retailers happily swapped parts instore before sale if that's what the customer wanted.

Plus thereafter RSC would happily change your parts anyway.

After half a century of existence, most in-service examples would be a Grandfather's Axe in any case...

Most owners would just enjoy as it is; but there are some tiny % that go searching for original era-correct parts to unmodify their revived wrecks back to Day One Factory condition... to each his own.

[JP Chestnut]

So many of these watches are put together to maximize value. Ever see a crappy GMT with one of those all blue inserts? They must have all been small arrow red hands that just lived in a safe...

[seabreeze60]

The jeweler had a catalog of 'aftermarket' Rolex dials. All fake, but looked cool. I didn't know the difference until I joined this forum.

The tourists in Long Beach bring in their Rolex's to this jeweler for a custom dial. It is a good business for him. He keeps the original dials and offers as an option on vintage Rolexes.

[JP Chestnut]

Nobody besides you is talking about fake parts. We're talking about buying a bunch of authentic watches and swapping parts between them to produce one totally perfect example with box and papers and a couple ok loose watches.

[BigJer]

Exactly, JP.

I backed out of a buy after I found out a more valuable and more rare dial had been swapped into another watch with box and papers to utilize its number. Now this is a full set? I don't think so. I would rather have the original watch with no box and papers.

I'm not talking about a watch that needed a part.

[BigJer]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

Dial has nothing to do with numbers. The dial color may be mentioned but it's the case number that matters. Does the case number match the papers?

If so, then you can take a case and custom build your own Rolex.

[springer]

Originally Posted by BigJer

Was considering buying a vintage Tudor, but not sure after I learned the owner had swapped out the original dial for another used dial from another Tudor so he would have a watch with papers with numbers matching.

Is this okay or fraud?

To quote an old friend, I'm shocked, shocked that such things like this go on in the hobby! I think I'm going to go back and start collecting Shelbys again. Whether on my Harley Springer or the Shelby, the need for speed seems to be much safer than this hobby has been the past several years. Dial swapping, what's the hobby coming to these days???

[GGGMT]

Why screw with any of that? Buy originality, not a clown show of different kibbles and bits!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[watchcrank]

Originally Posted by springer

To quote an old friend, I'm shocked, shocked that such things like this go on in the hobby! I think I'm going to go back and start collecting Shelbys again. Whether on my Harley Springer or the Shelby, the need for speed seems to be much safer than this hobby has been the past several years. Dial swapping, what's the hobby coming to these days???

tongue in cheek firmly attached JP. :-)