SARB033 / 6R15 failure after 6 weeks

[billbaytoven]

This is my first post on any watch forum ever, but my disgust and bum-out is such that I simply must share it around. Bought a SARB033 right around time they discontinued. Wore the SKX for years in all weathers and all activities. I am very much a one-watch person. I like the smaller size of the SARB and intended it to be the one watch. My specimen contains the 6r15D variant of that movement.

Received it, loved it, wore it exclusively. Have had it about 6 weeks so far. Two days ago I looked down and it had stopped about an hour before. That's the whole story. Watch simply dead on wrist. It remains so. Not on wrist though. Now dead on side table. I've switched back to my beat-to-hell SKX, which runs better than ever and seems, in the last few days, somehow more accurate than it was before I took it off.

The SARB was not treated roughly. It shows no indication of water ingress and has been so far in no more demanding an environment than a shower. It was not knocked or dropped or given any shock. I have been near nothing which might have magnetised it. It did not run funky or weird or gain or lose odd amounts of time leading up to its breakdown. I had not fiddled with it, re-set the time or date prior to its failure. I am a very active person and it did not die from stasis. I have tried winding it both by hand (via crown) and by movement, and nothing re-animates it. The hands move via the crown as supposed to. The date clicks over via crown as designed. Nothing seems stuck or fouled. The thing simply won't run. The balance wheel is not trapped or jammed, it pivots freely if I swirl the watch about. It doesn't oscillate though, or continue running.

I don't have the tools or knowhow to crack the thing open and poke around myself. I am currently on a farm in extremely rural Spain and no watchmakers in vicinity, but at end of May will be in Berlin for 2+ months and will deliver it to a shop for diagnosis.

I am very disappointed by this experience. I have never had a watch simply die on my wrist without cause before. Certainly not one which is essentially brand new (serial # indicates production in July 2017). I bought from an ebay seller in japan with copious and excellent feedback. Alas, the seller's return policy is 14 days after purchase. The warranty card asserts warranty valid only in japan. I was aware of all of this before purchasing a JDM model. But having owned a couple of the lower-tier models of Seiko before, and having never had any problem or hiccough from any of them, I assumed the same would be true of a slightly higher grade model.

I don't suppose there is any advice to be given. I am only really submitting this report for the record and to broadcast my disgust. Nothing helps a bad mood like spreading it around some.

I suppose if I have any question here it would be does anyone know if one has ANY recourse at all to warranty claim, though the warranty card clearly states valid in Japan only? Does the fact that the watch is built by Seiko and has completely died in fewer than two months' wear mean nothing? I expect these days it means exactly that, but would be happy to hear otherwise.

Additionally, has anyone else experienced a watch simply going dead on the wrist suddenly without cause and then absolutely refusing to start again?

[PJ S]

Contact Seiko Service in Spain, there’s every chance they’ll sort it out under warranty, as it’s only 9 months since manufactured.
If you act now, Spanish postal service withstanding, you could have it back before you head off to Germany, although you could try your luck with Seiko Germany if Spain knocks you back.
As a guess, it sounds like the mainspring has went, and if so, is a straight forward fix.

http://www.seiko.es/support/customer/europe.html

[Frogman]

Sorry to hear but this happens with every brand, you were unlucky enough to get a dud part in the movement, but i can understand your frustration.
Your 1 year international warranty will cover this.

[the_natural]

Def send it back. Good luck!

[Fleetlord]

It's a known issue.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H7aeI1lJarI

[billbaytoven]

Thanks, fellows. I am pleased to hear I may after all be able to submit this for official warranty repair. I will likely wait until I am in Germany to hand it off to anyone. I've too much experience with the Spanish way of things to trust I would see the thing back within the year. Although, the spain Seiko service place appears to be only a few blocks from my apartment in Barcelona, so maybe I will stop by in person when I am home and before going to germany on the off chance they might just put it on the bench right then and there to have a look.

I've read / seen about the 'c-type balance issue' linked above, but assumed that has more to do with poor amplitude and or poor timekeeping. And not so much the watch just outright dying on one's wrist and refusing to move another tick.

Thanks again, and I will update this thread when I have the thing sorted. I know many say that and then never do, but that vexes me enough to make sure I won't be one of those.

[Dan Pierce]

Sorry to hear of your SARB. Never had a Seiko moment go bad on me yet. In fact, I'm always amazed how much abuse they will take.
dP

[lucevan le stelle]

With watches, like some automobiles, you get the luck of the draw, as they say. On one hand, it is annoying, on the other hand, consider your SARB purchase price. I know some people with bad experiences in the 2-5k price range of Swiss watches. That might hurt more.

Seikos are usually incredibly reliable, but beware when you are buying a recently discontinued model that you are not getting a "seconds" watch.

[billbaytoven]

Here is an update on my travail. I am in Berlin for two months and per advice above in this thread I contacted Seiko Deutschland about this, in hopes it would be eligible for warranty service in spite of the guarantee card saying "valid in japan only."

I emailed Seiko Deutschland explaining things. Brand new watch, dead on the wrist after six weeks. I sent photographs of the warranty card front, back, and inside, and asked if this would be eligible for warranty service. The gentleman said he needs to see the sales invoice also. I sent photos of this. I did not want to waste my time and postage $ to send it in only to learn they won't service it because it's a JDM model. In the end, the gentleman at Seiko Deutschland invited me to send the watch in "and we will check it." Stupidly I assumed all was OK with the papers and it would fall under warranty.

I sent the watch in on Monday. On Thursday I received a form letter in the mail quoting repair price at 250€, and saying this watch is not eligible for warranty service as the warranty is valid only in japan. They would be happy to send it to japan for me, and the 250€ represents the estimated cost of repair and postage. It then informs me that if no service is desired, it will cost me 15€ to have the watch posted back to me un-repaired.

I was / am fairly livid over this. Not necessarily because of the lack of warranty service, but because I'd asked them specifically if it would be eligible ("and here is a copy of the warranty card to be sure before I send it!"), and was told to send it in. Additionally, it cost me 7€ to post it to them and now they are doubling that in order to send it back to me.

I've written a very strongly worded email back to the original man at Seiko Deutschland who looked at my warranty card and said "send it to us." I've written the same message in both english and german so there will be no mistake on his end about how I feel. This entire fiasco has left an extremely foul taste in my mouth and I do not think I will ever buy another Seiko again because of it. 250€ to service a 300€ watch after it died on my wrist six weeks into its life? What could have possibly gone wrong inside it to cause that much damage which, by the way, is invisible to the naked eye? My wrist continues to function perfectly.

If I pay the 15€ ransom and they send the busted watch back to me, I intend to take it to a well-reviewed local watchmaker here in Berlin and have it assessed. I would at least like to know exactly what is wrong with it, since Seiko apparently can't even open it up for me and tell me what is broken. Either way I won't be putting more than 100€ into repairing it. It will go to the garbage instead. I will update here as events warrant.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by billbaytoven

Alas, the seller's return policy is 14 days after purchase. The warranty card asserts warranty valid only in japan. I was aware of all of this before purchasing a JDM model. But having owned a couple of the lower-tier models of Seiko before, and having never had any problem or hiccough from any of them, I assumed the same would be true of a slightly higher grade model.

Sometimes, as in all man-made objects, mechanical or electronic, watches can fail. And it can happen to all brands. As you are already well aware the warranty is only valid for Japan before purchase, so not suprising Seiko Germany doesn't want to service it for free.

I sympathized with your case, that it is very frustrating to purchase a new watch only for it to fail by it's own. But such things do happen. But I am not sure sending Seiko further angry emails will help resolve the problem, granted what they did was rather stupid, to ask you to send in the watch and then said they only can fix it with charge. Maybe something lost in translation?

If I am you, I will write to the original ebay seller in Japan that you bought the watch from and seek their help. Perhaps they can help you get the watch fixed under local warranty in Japan. If they are customer-oriented, they should try to help you. Good Luck and hope it's resolved soon.

[billbaytoven]

Thanks. Yep, it's the wasted time / postage which bugs me about Seiko Deutschland, not necessarily the warranty refusal. I don't think it was a translation problem, as in my first message I wrote in german that I can write in german if necessary. All contacts thereafter were conducted in confident-seeming english.

Though I'll never understand the 'valid only in japan' thing. You make a product, but only stand behind it HERE, and not THERE?

Also don't understand how a movement repair can possibly cost 85% of the purchase price of the entire watch.

Also don't understand how they charge 15€ to stick it back in the box I sent it in and slap a new address on it. It cost me 7€ to send to them, and would have been 2€ if I'd declined the insurance.

I've since read on some of the german forums a pretty significant load of negative stuff from people sending their watch to Seiko DE like I have. My experience definitely seems to be par for their course. Lots of reports too of people actually paying the extortion repair charge and then getting a still-broken watch returned to them, or otherwise newly damaged.

No I've about had it with this watch. I am not going to make hassling with this my whole life. If I get it back from them I'll carry it over to a local person and see what they say, but that's as far as I'm taking it.

[Pavlos]

Seiko great for quartz and GS great for mechanical.

[Billboa]

Sorry to hear, I own the SARB35 with the 6R15B mvmt. and it was losing time up to a minute a day! Although, not as bad as what you describe, but I've owned many Seikos and have NEVER had this bad of an experience with a supposed "High" end Seiko mvmt.

I would part ways with the thing if I were you. I did with mine and never looked back. Stick with the divers in my opinion. Best bang for your buck all around.

Good luck!

[billbaytoven]

Well, here another update. I sent in the 15€ extortion to have the busted watch returned to me unrepaired. Instead of the watch, two days later I receive another letter from someone else at Seiko DE informing me of an error on their part. It seems they now offer to send the watch to Japan for free warranty repair. I do not know what happened to the original quoted cost of 250€. I wrote the woman back, this time in email, to ask if warranty repair is GUARANTEED in japan, or if this risks the watch being sent to japan only for them to determine something faulty with the papers and say "no warranty here, cost 250€." And then what then for the 'return it to me un-repaired' charge?

The woman wrote back saying it should be repaired there under warranty. If for some reason it cannot be, or requires some extra charge (they do not expect this), I will be notified to decide. And in case of return without repair, there will be no extra charge to me. She estimated round trip to japan should take around 8 weeks.

So I have said, weary of this whole thing and now never really expecting to see the watch again whether broken or working, please go ahead and send it to japan and we'll see what happens. I've asked that the 15€ I sent them to return the watch unrepaired be sent back to me. Not really counting on seeing that returned, though.

It will be interesting to see what japan says. I bought from a grey-market seller on ebay and though the watch was brand new, with box and stickers and warranty card and all, the warranty card was not stamped by anyone. Having never dealt with a warranty claim before, I don't know how essential this is or if the fact that the watch failed within seven or so months of its production will be enough to have them fix it, irrespective of warranty cards or stamps.

This poor ridiculous watch and the travels it will have gone through. Made in japan, sold and shipped to new york, travelled to spain on my wrist, to germany in my briefcase, back to seiko in a box of wadded newspaper, now sent back to japan from germany. If it takes 8 weeks to fix there is every possibility I won't be in germany any longer (travel much for work and other things) and it will have to be sent godnose where to re-join me.

[Frogman]

All seikos have an unlimited 1 year international warranty, ive used it a few times myself in the Syd seiko boutique, it shouldnt matter if its a japanese warranty, it should be good for a year out of japan.

If they try and stuff you around remind them of that.

[daveo5]

Sorry to read about your problem and problematic Seiko. When buying from a third party source, it is always advisable to ask about the warranty. If it is one country only or international is important. There are third party dealers in the USA who advertise a warranty, close reading reveals it is an in-house warranty, not the manufacturer's. I have had Seiko divers watches since the mid and late 1990s. I have one model, day-date, 7526-0029, with a Singapore movement. In 1998, I had to participate in a USAFReserve 15 day exercise in the Nevada desert north of Las Vegas.There was sand, but also a silicate substance, which was extremely fine. I set the watch on the first evening, 14 days later we completed the exercise. I wore my Seiko in the shower to remove any particles of grit from the strap and outer case. I checked the time and found it had gained + 2 minutes 54 seconds. Or + 12.4 seconds per 24 hours. Not bad for a swing start watch. That's when I got sold on Seiko.

[billbaytoven]

Hey, hey, another update on the saga of this poor little watch.

This morning I wrote to Seiko DE to enquire whether it had made the voyage to Japan and if there was yet a verdict there on whether or not it would be repaired under warranty. I received a message right back reporting the watch had already been repaired, under warranty, and delivered back to me. Attached to the email was a pdf with the tracking / delivery details of the shipment.

Needless to say, I haven't received the watch.

Tracking says it was delivered, signed for, on 20 June. The address / name is accurate on the tracking form. The 'signed by' name on the delivery notice is no name I recognise, and is not on the bell-plate outside the front door of the building.

That's all for now. The travails of this poor watch have been manifold. I am entirely unsurprised by this of the delivery error. Perhaps the watch will be deemed lost and eligible for insurance claim and I can just get a new one. Or something else entirely. I will as ever update this thread as updates warrant.

[Andad]

Well the good news is it had been repaired under warranty.

Which I think was ONE of your many, many issues.

I am holding my breath for the next update.

Jeez, I hope the watch arrives soon.

[billbaytoven]

Well here is the conclusion to the story. I have the watch back, and it ticks again. It looks like, according to the repair invoice, they just stuck in a new 6R15D movement and caseback gasket. New guarantee of repair- 12 months. There is no evidence they actually sent this all the way back to Japan for this repair. But then who knows.

The packaging in which they sent the thing back to me is nicer than the box the watch came in new. They sent it in this nice little zippered black seiko box with the thing strapped firmly round a velvet pillow inside.

The delivery person just gave the delivery off to this random design office at the front of my building. Kind of blind luck I figured out where it was.

Now to get them to send me back the 15€ I sent to get the watch back un-repaired, when I thought it would be 250 to get it fixed. They said they'd return the 15, but it isn't here with the papers.

Well, thanks for coming along for the ride. And thanks to this forum for convincing me to try for the warranty repair in spite of the 'valid in japan only' stuff. We'll, or I guess I'll, see how long the thing lasts this time.

[toxicavenger]

The 6r15 and the 8l35 are some of the most temperamental movements I have ever come across with Seiko. Glad it worked out for you.

[tk.watch]

Sorry to hear this! Definitely send it back!