They're keeping the "papers"

[nvrp813]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

its not a deed nor does it establish ownership. The correct analogy would be them withholding your home warranty for a year but if you needed it for yourself you would still get a warranty fix. It would prevent you from flipping the house to a third party and including the home warranty

What do I care if the new buyer sold for a profit, warranty and all? The warranty is in the product, not solely to the individual buying the product.

[harvey]

This subject has been done to death, with the same argument for and against. This will run to another 20 pages or so...

[Brew]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

you wouldn't even get that far. They wouldn't even process the transaction without you agreeing

You may very well be correct. I hope not to find out. If it does become so, I'll go elsewhere, as I did not create this "problem" and should not be asked to take less than what I pay for because of it.

[Raku]

There are countless threads with the same topic.
I guess people don't really care to do a search ...

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by nvrp813

What do I care if the new buyer sold for a profit, warranty and all? The warranty is in the product, not solely to the individual buying the product.

Rolex cares if their watches are being flipped. AD's are getting pressure from Rolex to stop it. Im sorry but keeping Rolex happy is more important to the AD than keeping you happy.

Otherwise AD's wont sell anyone they dont already know very, very well a hot watch. Withholding the warranty card actually opens up the purchases to people that are not already established as it takes some of the risk away for the AD.

[LazySumday]

Why does Rolex care if you flip the watch?


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[nvrp813]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

Rolex cares if their watches are being flipped. AD's are getting pressure from Rolex to stop it. Im sorry but keeping Rolex happy is more important to the AD than keeping you happy.

Otherwise AD's wont sell anyone they dont already know very, very well a hot watch. Withholding the warranty card actually opens up the purchases to people that are not already established as it takes some of the risk away for the AD.

I will agree to disagree.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Brew

You may very well be correct. I hope not to find out. If it does become so, I'll go elsewhere, as I did not create this "problem" and should not be asked to take less than what I pay for because of it.

if you know your AD its rarely an issue. Its Random Joe coming in and putting himself on a waitlist and then after some time gets the watch. The AD doesnt know if he is a flipper or not. Its overblown in most cases and does not include people with actual AD relationships. For people without a relationship its a tool to determine intent.

[James444]

Bad news for flippers

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by nvrp813

I will agree to disagree.

im not speculating its fact. You can chose to ignore facts if you want though.

AD's in the UK are blacklisting customers for flipping watches and Rolex has bought up some flipped watches to find out where they came from and then came down on the AD for not vetting customers. 100%.

[challer]

If Rolex was concerned about flipping, they could simply increase production to meet demand and increase profits as a result. The manufacturing capacity is there - shift from PM and DJ to sports SS. Rolex is far more interested in their brand than their buyers. Now, none of us have all the facts as to why they've chosen this approach and it's none of our business. We can live with the situation - wait for the AD to have what you want or go grey - or walk. I've done the first two and after I fulfill my next buy, will be doing the later.

[rolexinfl]

This is like store owners in the USA opening bourbon bottles in the USA before you leave the store with them, so you dont flip them for a profit.

Some care, some dont.

[Faddius]

Standard UK AD practice to retain the papers for 1 year and remove stickers. Some ADs requiring a signed “contract” between them and the buyer that the buyer will not resell the watch onward or flip it for a period of time. Ridiculous sh1te obviously... and manifestly unenforceable under UK contract or common law.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by Faddius

Standard UK AD practice to retain the papers for 1 year and remove stickers. Some ADs requiring a signed “contract” between them and the buyer that the buyer will not resell the watch onward or flip it for a period of time. Ridiculous sh1te obviously... and manifestly unenforceable under UK contract or common law.

You CAN flip it. If they find out they blacklist you. The contract is you agreeing you wont. Even without signing anything they could still blacklist you though.

Withholding the papers also does not prevent you from selling. Its your watch you just have to do it without a plastic card. They cant prevent you from selling and no one is saying they have that power.

You have to sign a contract with Range Rover in the US (or at least you use to) that says you wont export it for a year. Its still your car though but you cant sell it in brazil.

[airpeace]

you tell the AD that you would pay 50% down when you pick up the watch and pay the other 50% when they release the paper/warranty card to you. tell them it's your policy and see what they say.

[ragsk]

I am ok with this. Need to put the profit taking flippers and the greys out of the equation.

Watches should go at retail to the people that will cherish them.

The Rolex list prices in the UK are the cheapest on the planet. You have tons of tourists coming here and buying watches, getting the tax refunded and ending up with a great deal. Rolex should (maybe they have already done so) should allow dealers to only sell to locals.

if the dealers dont like it - Rolex can change them. They have all the power.

[guycord]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

its their business and they can do what they want. If i ran an AD i could say i only serve customers wearing fedora hats and i have that right to make it a condition of sale. If you dont agree you are free to shop esleware.

Its been established over and over and over again they can do it and its happening. Rolex UK also says its OK for their AD's to do this.

Yet if as a wannabe AD you refuse on the basis on selling to a particular religious background or sexual orientation and I suspect your feet would not touch the ground.

I believe it could and can be challenged if done so appropriately.

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by airpeace

you tell the AD that you would pay 50% down when you pick up the watch and pay the other 50% when they release the paper/warranty card to you. tell them it's your policy and see what they say.

they will say go to Jomashop. They dont provide the warranty either for obvious reasons (to conceal the AD selling the watch). But your 50% will buy you more watch there

[tyler1980]

Originally Posted by guycord

Yet if as a wannabe AD you refuse on the basis on selling to a particular religious background or sexual orientation and I suspect your feet would not touch the ground.

I believe it could and can be challenged if done so appropriately.

in the US at least those are protected situations generally except second one. Religion, national origin, gender etc. This is not one. I can say whatever i want or refuse to serve anyone i want as long as i dont touch a protected group classification.

[jaydav2306]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

You CAN flip it. If they find out they blacklist you. The contract is you agreeing you wont. Even without signing anything they could still blacklist you though.

Withholding the papers also does not prevent you from selling. Its your watch you just have to do it without a plastic card. They cant prevent you from selling and no one is saying they have that power.

You have to sign a contract with Range Rover in the US (or at least you use to) that says you wont export it for a year. Its still your car though but you cant sell it in brazil.

Fact is this the truth about what is actually happening in ADs in the UK such as M&W, WoS etc. Managers mainly but in some cases sales assistants do not earn a lot and are taking back handers. I can you give you 4 or 5 greys tat this week alone have latest models 2018 with stickers and paperwork. One grey I previously mentioned stupidly tagged himself in WoS on Regent Street for a BLNR with the watch for sale before the payment had even gone through.

It's who you know and who can be bought

[guycord]

Originally Posted by tyler1980

im not speculating its fact. You can chose to ignore facts if you want though.

AD's in the UK are blacklisting customers for flipping watches and Rolex has bought up some flipped watches to find out where they came from and then came down on the AD for not vetting customers. 100%.

And yet there is a lot of circumstantial discussion indicating the majority of Grey Dealers stock comes directly from the ADs themselves?

The average Joe waits 2 years and makes a few quid on a Sub or GMT. Better I think that Rolex allows a substantial deposit at point of order/listing.

Maybe, as an idea ADs overcharge by 10%, you take the goods and on the proviso it is returned to a AD for a quick "accuracy check" after its 1st year, the 10% is returned back via Rolex.

Problem solved perhaps?

[jaydav2306]

Originally Posted by guycord

And yet there is a lot of circumstantial discussion indicating the majority of Grey Dealers stock comes directly from the ADs themselves?

The average Joe waits 2 years and makes a few quid on a Sub or GMT. Better I think that Rolex allows a substantial deposit at point of order/listing.

Maybe, as an idea ADs overcharge by 10%, you take the goods and on the proviso it is returned to a AD for a quick "accuracy check" after its 1st year, the 10% is returned back via Rolex.

Problem solved perhaps?

ADs are not blacklisting regular joes, they want Rolex to believe that but the fact is that there is a bigger issue here and you're pretty naive if you can't see it, I've seen it first hand

[TeddyS]

It happens and will continue to happen. That’s why we are seeing watches for sale from greys where the papers will be delivered in 12 months time. Will just become standard practise


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[guycord]

Originally Posted by jaydav2306

ADs are not blacklisting regular joes, they want Rolex to believe that but the fact is that there is a bigger issue here and you're pretty naive if you can't see it, I've seen it first hand

Never said ADs were blacklisting. I said - if you cant see it - that average Joe waits 2yrs or whatever for some return. However, most of my contemporarys just want the watch after the wait.

ADs are a bigger cause of the Grey market than individuals. Yet the censure is against the individual.

If Rolex followed-up on after market Sales and traced the registered owners - info given from the AD registering Warranty cards, I bet a story would quickly emerge that would close many ADs.

They dont or they dont care to which pretty much sums-up where the problem is. ROLEX.

[Noonan]

Rolex could easily avoid this by just making more watches that are in demand. They have the ability but they choose to keep their product exclusive while also trying to force how they're sold. They're in their right but I don't blame gray dealers one bit. They know demand is high and stock is low. There will always be someone looking to make money off a situation like that.

[airchitect]

Simple fact.....the warranty card, just like the links, the box, or the watch is your property the second you pay for it. Trying to keep it for any reason is a no go. Trying to tell you what you can do with your property is a no go. I’d feel like a punk if I let an AD give me that sort of directive.

[TeddyS]

I just spoke to Fraser Hart a U.K AD and they are also keeping warranty card now, as it is suggested best practise from Rolex. So it is no longer just Goldsmiths, W.O.S and the related group doing this. They also suggested that if I was willing to bundle a waiting list piece with a stock piece that any watch can be obtained quoted quickly


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[Number3]

Originally Posted by THC

Holding the card, papers, only empowers the greys even further, imo

I agree. Furthermore it is the AD's that sell stock in to the greys in the first place. So, if I want my papers straight away I need to pay a premium?

[Ped22]

Goldsmiths, WoS and others in the Aurum group may be doing this, as well as maybe Fraser Hart but I’ve purchased 2 watches from an independent AD and they’ve given me the warranty card and everything else.

Just depends on where you go and your relationship with them I guess?


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[GolfPunk]

Yes, goldsmiths retained my card last week for 12months and I have a great AD relationship.

No big deal, I’m not selling it