My AP Las Vegas “Journey” - A Cautionary Tale

[taitun4life]

Originally Posted by Akacoke

The Truth is just too ugly. Your journey is way too rough. At this point I'd write to AP headquarters.

+1

Nothing to loose at this point. I might even take it a notch further to be at W&W to see their execs this april

[WatchingAustin]

I think AP has let their celebrity status go to their head. Also - it sounds like AP recognized you were wealthy and decided to see how far along they could drag you. I'm sorry that this has happened and I hope you can find a brand to make it right! With your spend you should be capable of getting in good with anyone you want.

[TheHolyLuck]

It is a really sad story. If you would have said that earlyer here, plenty of members would have told you to back off from this Dealer.
Yes you need to contact the organisation at a higher echelon to explain the situation.
Most of the AP journey’s from other members here have been really enjoyable.

[edo]

If sales ladie moved to RM waiting for a thread where guy spent 4 million $ on ladies and round case RMs and still waiting for his 67-02...

[Gandor]

corporate would have probably allocated him anything he asked for if he didn't sell a corporate approval piece prior

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by edo

If sales ladie moved to RM waiting for a thread where guy spent 4 million $ on ladies and round case RMs and still waiting for his 67-02...

"RMJourneyFail" is still up for grabs.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by RRJ

I'd really like a Jumbo. I went to the boutique a year or so ago and was told that it wouldn't be possible without building a "relationship" first. Since I only build relationships with people I like and not corporations or sales staff I politely declined and went home.

Instead of beding over and literally handing out 100s of thousands on stuff I neither like nor need, I'll just wait for the hype to blow over. Give it 4-5 years and you can just buy the watches you like from AP. Probably with a discount.

that's exactly my plan - only AP I want right now is a 16202 - it's really coming down - I'd be willing to spend somewhere in the low 40s over the next couple years going grey.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

"RMJourneyFail" is still up for grabs.

The more I reread the entire thread the more I am in Vogel's camp....

Was he strung along a bit? Sure. Did his SA maybe try hard and didn't get there? Perhaps? Should he have put a stop throwing good money after bad (esp after $150k)? Definitely!

That said, he did get A TON of pieces at the literal height of the market craze (21/22).

ALL AP watches at that time were trading at a premium, including codes - let's not pretend anyone could walk into a boutique and leave with a code. The 15500 and the music edition were trading 2x or 3x above retail!!

So does it suck for OP especially in hindsight? Yes, but in the moment you cannot fault AP for giving him 7-9 watches where they could have allocated it to anyone and sold it immediately

[gretch6364]

Originally Posted by messikens

The more I reread the entire thread the more I am in Vogel's camp....

Was he strung along a bit? Sure. Did his SA maybe try hard and didn't get there? Perhaps? Should he have put a stop throwing good money after bad (esp after $150k)? Definitely!

That said, he did get A TON of pieces at the literal height of the market craze (21/22).

ALL AP watches at that time were trading at a premium, including codes - let's not pretend anyone could walk into a boutique and leave with a code. The 15500 and the music edition were trading 2x or 3x above retail!!

So does it suck for OP especially in hindsight? Yes, but in the moment you cannot fault AP for giving him 7-9 watches where they could have allocated it to anyone and sold it immediately

I completely agree. He was allocated some wonderful pieces. I get the vibe he is mad at himself for timing the market wrong and not selling everything at its height and buying a Jumbo grey. My SA has told me from the beginning not to buy anything I don’t want. I have turned down a couple pieces. One later that same day turned into my wife’s 50th blue dial 37 RO after I turned down a ROO because I wanted one with a ceramic bezel.

[goog53]

Originally Posted by messikens

The more I reread the entire thread the more I am in Vogel's camp....

ALL AP watches at that time were trading at a premium, including codes - let's not pretend anyone could walk into a boutique and leave with a code. The 15500 and the music edition were trading 2x or 3x above retail!!

So does it suck for OP especially in hindsight? Yes, but in the moment you cannot fault AP for giving him 7-9 watches where they could have allocated it to anyone and sold it immediately

Of course you are in Vogel’s camp… 2 AP Clients who fortunately for you guys dont own any junk Vogel is comparing Code Starwheel and Black Onyx Code Tourb to the trash they sold the OP making it seem like the overall code line to be some amazing collection. (I will say the Code PC is very nice but at $106K and tax not for 90-95% of AP owners). Congrats on owning 2 Royal Oaks in Steel 41mm and 34mm, a very attractive Ceramic ROO, and a 38mm RG ROC. By my account, 3 very nice men’s watches and you threw the boutique a bone and bought a lady 34mm RO which is still a nice watch but we can all agree the 34mm lady pieces dont fly off the shelf. You also admitted on your own thread that you dont want to go the Code Route but would like a CE ROC for your next watch. I’m certainly pulling for you but let’s not exaggerate here…None of his Code’s bought ever sold over retail. All were losers one would take major hits on if you sold today and you wouldnt make 5¢ if you sold at the height of the market so let’s not make it like the boutique did him some favor in offering these. If we are being objective the only sought after pieces he received were the 7th and 8th watches by his timeline a 41mm and 37mm RO. People are flaming the guy for selling a 37mm Music Edition once again that is not a watch that sells over list and many people seem to forget he mentioned just turning down a 41mm Green Dial ROC that he could have easily taken and sold for a profit. AP was in the wrong and should've made this right IMO.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by gretch6364

I completely agree. He was allocated some wonderful pieces. I get the vibe he is mad at himself for timing the market wrong and not selling everything at its height and buying a Jumbo grey. My SA has told me from the beginning not to buy anything I don’t want. I have turned down a couple pieces. One later that same day turned into my wife’s 50th blue dial 37 RO after I turned down a ROO because I wanted one with a ceramic bezel.

lol this is what you got from OPs post ?!?!? What are you smoking ?????


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[Pfang56]

Originally Posted by messikens

The more I reread the entire thread the more I am in Vogel's camp....

Was he strung along a bit? Sure. Did his SA maybe try hard and didn't get there? Perhaps? Should he have put a stop throwing good money after bad (esp after $150k)? Definitely!

That said, he did get A TON of pieces at the literal height of the market craze (21/22).

ALL AP watches at that time were trading at a premium, including codes - let's not pretend anyone could walk into a boutique and leave with a code. The 15500 and the music edition were trading 2x or 3x above retail!!

So does it suck for OP especially in hindsight? Yes, but in the moment you cannot fault AP for giving him 7-9 watches where they could have allocated it to anyone and sold it immediately

Good points. Felt the same way with Rolex and Patek during the same period - and whether it's precious metal Rolex (Meteorite GMTs) or practically any Patek released in the last few years (6119, 6007, 5236, 5990) - getting access to these pieces felt *special* because they were not immediately available and in some cases (if it matters to you, the value out the door was higher). And, promises were made - in my case, I was "approved" to get a 5231G, but somebody else grabbed my allocation, and I pulled back on future Patek purchases because of the experience. It happens to everybody, and in the end, my learning is only buy what you love and what you will wear every day.

There's definitely a lot of CODE hate here, but as an owner of a WG Burgundy three-hander and a Perpetual in RG (and now a Starwheel), I couldn't care less because I really smile when wearing my OG CODEs. My wife has 5 RO's in 33/34 - and she loves every one of them (and puts aside her Cartiers and PP's). Maybe my FA is pissed with my asset allocation, but you can't value emotion properly. This entire world of "value" was never a concern for those collecting longer than 5 years ago - as my first AP purchase was nearly 25 years ago (the OG Beast), and as an early collector of RM, you left the store knowingly losing money on jewelry :) It's a freaking upside that we have this secondary market situation.

So ultimately - all first world, new world concerns - I do think the SA was overpromising and overselling - and AP does need to do more to rebuild the OP's trust of the brand - but enjoy and love what you have, and maybe, with the right SA / AP House and patience, I'm certain there will be new options coming.

One near term suggestion - request a visit to Le Brassus and the factory tour. It makes a difference for a lot of people to get desirable pieces and would be a nice demonstration of appreciation by AP.


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[Akacoke]

Some people only sees sun shine and rainbows. I can't agree with a lot of these comments

[Pfang56]

Originally Posted by Akacoke

Some people only sees sun shine and rainbows. I can't agree with a lot of these comments

I see Star...wheels...


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[Palex]

Originally Posted by Pfang56

Good points. Felt the same way with Rolex and Patek during the same period - and whether it's precious metal Rolex (Meteorite GMTs) or practically any Patek released in the last few years (6119, 6007, 5236, 5990) - getting access to these pieces felt *special* because they were not immediately available and in some cases (if it matters to you, the value out the door was higher). And, promises were made - in my case, I was "approved" to get a 5231G, but somebody else grabbed my allocation, and I pulled back on future Patek purchases because of the experience. It happens to everybody, and in the end, my learning is only buy what you love and what you will wear every day.

There's definitely a lot of CODE hate here, but as an owner of a WG Burgundy three-hander and a Perpetual in RG (and now a Starwheel), I couldn't care less because I really smile when wearing my OG CODEs. My wife has 5 RO's in 33/34 - and she loves every one of them (and puts aside her Cartiers and PP's). Maybe my FA is pissed with my asset allocation, but you can't value emotion properly. This entire world of "value" was never a concern for those collecting longer than 5 years ago - as my first AP purchase was nearly 25 years ago (the OG Beast), and as an early collector of RM, you left the store knowingly losing money on jewelry :) It's a freaking upside that we have this secondary market situation.

So ultimately - all first world, new world concerns - I do think the SA was overpromising and overselling - and AP does need to do more to rebuild the OP's trust of the brand - but enjoy and love what you have, and maybe, with the right SA / AP House and patience, I'm certain there will be new options coming.

One near term suggestion - request a visit to Le Brassus and the factory tour. It makes a difference for a lot of people to get desirable pieces and would be a nice demonstration of appreciation by AP.


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Couldn't have said it better!

[Armis]

Originally Posted by Pfang56

I see Star...wheels...

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You wear it well!

I didn’t realize a trip to the factory can make a difference in allocation. Do you know why that would be? Because it demonstrates some degree of passion for the brand?
Thinking about it, it’s very cool that brands, big and small, offer the option to visit.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by Armis

You wear it well!

I didn’t realize a trip to the factory can make a difference in allocation. Do you know why that would be? Because it demonstrates some degree of passion for the brand?
Thinking about it, it’s very cool that brands, big and small, offer the option to visit.

It helped at Patek. You go on a trip where you’re immersed in the brand and their marketing for several days, that’s a big time commitment. After I did that trip I received two application pieces.

I have had a pending factory tour to Wellendorff for a while now but their “limited ultra rare” stuff I can just order.

[Pfang56]

Originally Posted by Armis

You wear it well!

I didn’t realize a trip to the factory can make a difference in allocation. Do you know why that would be? Because it demonstrates some degree of passion for the brand?
Thinking about it, it’s very cool that brands, big and small, offer the option to visit.

Yeah have definitely heard it makes a big impact, especially on pieces that require HQ approval. Also, sometimes you get to see things that may be released later.


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[TimeKeepsOnTicking]

Most, if not all of the pieces purchased have appreciated in value. If I were the OP and still had a taste for AP, then I'd sell off everything unwanted or not being enjoyed, purchase the desired piece via gray and begin a new "journey" with another brand. that values their high net worth customers.

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by TimeKeepsOnTicking

Most, if not all of the pieces purchased have appreciated in value. If I were the OP and still had a taste for AP, then I'd sell off everything unwanted or not being enjoyed, purchase the desired piece via gray and begin a new "journey" with another brand. that values their high net worth customers.

lol what. No they haven't

[J.T.]

Originally Posted by watcheater666

lol what. No they haven't

+1

[Akacoke]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

lol what. No they haven't

X2

[gretch6364]

I was going to go through the effort of putting together MSRP vs current average market price for all the watches to see how much he is in the whole vs the current premium on the green dial ROC....but that is too much effort at the moment.

[l_chissle]

Originally Posted by gretch6364

I was going to go through the effort of putting together MSRP vs current average market price for all the watches to see how much he is in the whole vs the current premium on the green dial ROC....but that is too much effort at the moment.

This would be my guess as the time of purchase vs. today. Relative to cost. Have to remember MSRP has gone up too.

The journey is horrible, obviously and compared to a number of the posters here, it is clear OP has been taken for a ride by his SA.

However, the numbers, especially at the time of purchase probably has the op "up". Clearly was not his intention. I still don't think he's sitting on a terrible loss if he were to get rid of everything


1)April 2021- 38mm ROC 26315st purchased (grey dial) -
Purchase date: +$1-2k
Today: +$3-5k

2) Jul 2021- Code 11:59 ladies
Purchase date: -$5-10k
Today: -$5-10k

3) Dec 2021- Code 11:59 RG/ Ceramic Chrono
Purchase date: -$5-10k
Today: -$10-15k


4) Mar 2022- Ladies gold ROO purchased
Purchase date: +/-
Today: -$3-5k

5) Mar 2022 AP Diver purchased (grey dial) - (asked for blue dial)
Purchase date: +/-
Today: -$3-5k

6) Jun 2022- Code PC purchased
Purchase date: -$5-8k
Today: -$15-20k

7) Jul 2022 - 41mm RO 15500 purchased - I liked this piece. Yay- maybe we are getting somewhere?
Purchase date: +$25-30k
Today: +$10-15k

8) Oct 2022 - 37mm RO purchased for wife.
Purchase date: +$15-20k
Today: +$10-15k

9) Oct 2022- 37mm Music Ti purchased
Purchase date: +$10-15k
Today: +$5-10k

[WatchEater666]

Originally Posted by l_chissle

This would be my guess as the time of purchase vs. today. Relative to cost. Have to remember MSRP has gone up too.

The journey is horrible, obviously and compared to a number of the posters here, it is clear OP has been taken for a ride by his SA.

However, the numbers, especially at the time of purchase probably has the op "up". Clearly was not his intention. I still don't think he's sitting on a terrible loss if he were to get rid of everything


1)April 2021- 38mm ROC 26315st purchased (grey dial) -
Purchase date: +$1-2k
Today: +$3-5k

2) Jul 2021- Code 11:59 ladies
Purchase date: -$5-10k
Today: -$5-10k

3) Dec 2021- Code 11:59 RG/ Ceramic Chrono
Purchase date: -$5-10k
Today: -$10-15k


4) Mar 2022- Ladies gold ROO purchased
Purchase date: +/-
Today: -$3-5k

5) Mar 2022 AP Diver purchased (grey dial) - (asked for blue dial)
Purchase date: +/-
Today: -$3-5k

6) Jun 2022- Code PC purchased
Purchase date: -$5-8k
Today: -$15-20k

7) Jul 2022 - 41mm RO 15500 purchased - I liked this piece. Yay- maybe we are getting somewhere?
Purchase date: +$25-30k
Today: +$10-15k

8) Oct 2022 - 37mm RO purchased for wife.
Purchase date: +$15-20k
Today: +$10-15k

9) Oct 2022- 37mm Music Ti purchased
Purchase date: +$10-15k
Today: +$5-10k

Your comps are wayyy off

[bod42zx]

I’ve experienced a ‘moving of the goalposts’ too at one of the larger AP houses. In my case, I started to see a pattern where at each purchase they would say ‘we can definitely allocate X now…’ to then being told to focus on another ladies’ piece etc. next time I visited. It started to feel like chasing the end of a rainbow…
After a while and (fortunately) without spending anything like the OP but still not an insignificant sum, I decided to stop the game. As many wise posters on forum have said, if you are really only interested in a handful of the harder to obtain pieces (CE, jumbo, openworked etc.) it might not be worth the expenditure (and wait) to reach that allocation, particularly where grey prices are heading now.
In mitigation, it was clear that the AP house did not receive large numbers of each model and it’s obviously sensible business practice to ‘extract’ as much value per highly sought after piece as they can, all in a very discreet and friendly way of course.On top of this, a lot of clients have joined AP in the last 3-4 years and are currently at the 4-5 pieces point and therefore ‘expecting’ a jumbo or CE now. AP aren’t going to up production in these specific high demand pieces to meet this squeeze. Care for another offshore or code while you wait, Sir?
So, beware the shifting goal posts and my advice would be have a cold hard look at where you really want to be with your collection and what the likely ‘in cost’ will be at AP, if you only really want a few of the top demand pieces.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by WatchEater666

Your comps are wayyy off

I was about to say code chrono with ceramic is 48k ( plus tax) retail and low 30s grey - gods knows he would take a bath grey idk who would even buy close to 30k so that’s minimum 20k plus loss right there


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[Akacoke]

Originally Posted by dauster

I was about to say code chrono with ceramic is 48k ( plus tax) retail and low 30s grey - gods knows he would take a bath grey idk who would even buy close to 30k so that’s minimum 20k plus loss right there


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OP will absolutely get slaughtered in grey . 26315st are being listed below 35k on Moda quiet a few times. All his allocations beside the 50th yrs anniversary take huge lost if grey even take them.

[messikens]

Originally Posted by Akacoke

OP will absolutely get slaughtered in grey . 26315st are being listed below 35k on Moda quiet a few times. All his allocations beside the 50th yrs anniversary take huge lost if grey even take them.

What about the 11.59 PC? Retail now is $106k before tax (!!), on C24 the lowest is around $70 and I'm sure you can grab it for $65k if you offered it.

Selling it grey I'd be surprised if you could get rid of it for above $62... That's close to a $50k bath

[Mr.GL]

It's unfortunate that the watches craze is over now. If the craze is still on, this thread won't exist .

It's unfair to focus on AP. Most brands or ADs were doing the same sales tactics.

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